Spelljammer Converting Spelljammer creatures

[Cleon]

Something like additional ranks of

Spellcraft 5, Know (arcana) 11, Concentration 4, Craft (alchemy) 15, Bluff 7, Balance 4, Move Silently 4?

That's a lot of Craft Alchemy! It also adds up to 50 SPs, not 49.

I was thinking more:

Spellcraft 5, Know (arcana) 11, Concentration 4, Craft (alchemy) 12, Bluff 6, Balance 2, Move Silently 3, Search 3, Spot 3

 

[freyar]

Must have mis-totaled somewhere along the way. In any case, your suggested distribution is fine.

I was looking at the feats, and I ran into this question: what Craft skill is important for use with Craft Wondrous Item? Because it should really have some ranks in that.

 

[Cleon]

Must have mis-totaled somewhere along the way. In any case, your suggested distribution is fine.

Shall I update it then?

I was looking at the feats, and I ran into this question: what Craft skill is important for use with Craft Wondrous Item? Because it should really have some ranks in that.

Curiously enough, the only Wondrous Item in the SRD that has a Craft skill prerequisite is the folding boat, which requires 2 ranks in Craft (shipbuilding).

So unless we're planning on the Undead Neogi going sailing we don't actually need to give it any Craft ranks.

Although come to think of it, is Craft (shipbuilding) used to build spelljamming ships? I don't think there are official 3E spelljammer ship construction rules, but you can convert a regular sailing ship into a spelljammer, so whatever Craft skill you use to build one of those should probably apply.

If so, the Neogi might have a few ranks in it, and it could have plans to make a folding flying boat some day...

 

[freyar]

How about a folding spelljammer?

How about Spell Focus for the last feat?

 

[Cleon]

How about a folding spelljammer?

That's the kind of flying boat I had in mind.

So, are we giving it some points in a non-alchemy Craft? If we're undecided we could just call it "Craft (any one) X ranks".

Perhaps so:

Spellcraft 5, Know (arcana) 8, Concentration 4, Craft (alchemy) 8, Craft (any one) 5, Bluff 6, Balance 2, Move Silently 3, Search 3, Spot 3

How about Spell Focus for the last feat?

Sure, but what in? All of its spells with DC are in different schools.

Hmm...

How about we give it Spell Focus (Conjuration) and swap the fireball for stinking cloud? That's often far more effective than burninating the enemy, especially as the Undead Old Master is immune to nausea effects itself. It's always got its wand of scorching ray if it wants to do direct damage.

 

[freyar]

That's a fine skill list.

Conjuration with fireball -> stinking cloud and maybe invisibility -> glitterdust would work for me.

 

[Cleon]

That's a fine skill list.

Conjuration with fireball -> stinking cloud and maybe invisibility -> glitterdust would work for me.

Well invisibility is still a very handy spell as that CR and it already has a 2nd level conjuration in web, so I'll just swap the stinking cloud in for the time being.

Updating the Neogi Undead Old Master Working Draft.

I'll just check the skills to see if everything adds up...

 

[Cleon]

Well invisibility is still a very handy spell as that CR and it already has a 2nd level conjuration in web, so I'll just swap the stinking cloud in for the time being.

Updating the Neogi Undead Old Master Working Draft.

I'll just check the skills to see if everything adds up...

Well I checked the sums and it appears the base creature has one too many skill ranks. I make the Lord of Madness Neogi Sorcerer as having 57 SPs when it should have 56.

Appraise +6 = Int 4 + 2 ranks
Balance +9 = Dex 5 + 4 ranks
Climb +13 = Dex 5 +8 racial + 0 ranks
Concentration +11 (+15 casting defensively) = Con 1 + 10 ranks
Disable Device +7 = Int 2 + 5 ranks
Intimidate +9 = Cha 5 + 4 ranks
Jump +9 = Dex 5 + 4 ranks
Knowledge (arcana) +6 = Int 2 + 4 ranks
Move Silently +9 = Dex 5 + 4 ranks
Search +6 = Int 2 + 4 ranks
Spellcraft +12 = Int 2 + 10 ranks
Spot +7 = Wis 1 + 6 ranks

Ranks: 2 + 4 + 10 + 5 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 10 + 6
=> 2*10 + 6 + 5 + 6*4 +2
=> Total Ranks: 57

I'll cut a rank out of Spellcraft so that the total SPs add up.

 

[Cleon]

Well I checked the sums and it appears the base creature has one too many skill ranks. I make the Lord of Madness Neogi Sorcerer as having 57 SPs when it should have 56.

Appraise +6 = Int 4 + 2 ranks
Balance +9 = Dex 5 + 4 ranks
Climb +13 = Dex 5 +8 racial + 0 ranks
Concentration +11 (+15 casting defensively) = Con 1 + 10 ranks
Disable Device +7 = Int 2 + 5 ranks
Intimidate +9 = Cha 5 + 4 ranks
Jump +9 = Dex 5 + 4 ranks
Knowledge (arcana) +6 = Int 2 + 4 ranks
Move Silently +9 = Dex 5 + 4 ranks
Search +6 = Int 2 + 4 ranks
Spellcraft +12 = Int 2 + 10 ranks
Spot +7 = Wis 1 + 6 ranks

Ranks: 2 + 4 + 10 + 5 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 10 + 6
=> 2*10 + 6 + 5 + 6*4 +2
=> Total Ranks: 57

I'll cut a rank out of Spellcraft so that the total SPs add up.

Correct that correction. It has three too many skill ranks. I'd got the Appraise wrong.

Appraise +6 = Int 2 + 4 ranks
Balance +9 = Dex 5 + 4 ranks
Climb +13 = Dex 5 +8 racial + 0 ranks
Concentration +11 (+15 casting defensively) = Con 1 + 10 ranks
Disable Device +7 = Int 2 + 5 ranks
Intimidate +9 = Cha 5 + 4 ranks
Jump +9 = Dex 5 + 4 ranks
Knowledge (arcana) +6 = Int 2 + 4 ranks
Move Silently +9 = Dex 5 + 4 ranks
Search +6 = Int 2 + 4 ranks
Spellcraft +12 = Int 2 + 10 ranks
Spot +7 = Wis 1 + 6 ranks

Ranks: 2 + 4 + 10 + 5 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 10 + 6
=> 2*10 + 6 + 5 + 7*4
=> Total Ranks: 59

However, the above assumes they didn't include the bonuses from the familiar's bonus Alertness feat. If they did, it still has one too many skill ranks:

Appraise +6 = Int 2 + 4 ranks
Balance +9 = Dex 5 + 4 ranks
Climb +13 = Dex 5 +8 racial + 0 ranks
Concentration +11 (+15 casting defensively) = Con 1 + 10 ranks
Disable Device +7 = Int 2 + 5 ranks
Intimidate +9 = Cha 5 + 4 ranks
Jump +9 = Dex 5 + 4 ranks
Knowledge (arcana) +6 = Int 2 + 4 ranks
Move Silently +9 = Dex 5 + 4 ranks
Search +6 = Int 2 + 4 ranks
Spellcraft +12 = Int 2 + 10 ranks
Spot +7 = Wis 1 + Alertness 2 + 4 ranks

Ranks: 4 + 4 + 10 + 5 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 + 10 + 2
=> 2*10 + 5 + 8*4
=> Total Ranks: 57

Better check my sums again.

 

[Cleon]

Okay, I think I've got the skills sorted out. Those synergies were a pain!

Here's a breakdown:

Appraise +7 (+9 with Craft skills) = Int 3 (+2 synergy) + 4 base + 0 extra
Balance +9 = Dex 3 + 4 base + 2 extra
Bluff +12 = Cha 6 + 0 base + 6 extra
Climb +13 = Dex 3 +8 racial + 0 base + 2 extra
Concentration +15 (+19 casting defensively) = Con 0 + 10 base + 5 extra
Craft (alchemy) +12 = Int 3 + 0 base + 9 extra
Craft (any one) +8 = Int 3 + 0 base + 5 extra
Diplomacy +8 = Cha 6 +2 synergy + 0 base + 0 extra
Disable Device +8 = Int 3 + 5 base + 0 extra
Disguise +6 (+8 acting a role) = Cha 8 (+2 synergy) + 0 base + 0 extra
Intimidate +12 = Cha 6 +2 synergy + 4 base + 0 extra
Jump +7 = Dex 3 + 4 base + 0 extra
Knowledge (arcana) +16 = Int 3 + 4 base + 9 extra
Listen +2 (+4 with Familiar's Alertness) = Wis 2 (Familiar) + 0 base + 0 extra
Move Silently +10 = Dex 3 + 4 base + 3 extra
Search +10 = Int 3 + 4 base + 3 extra
Sleight of Hand +5 = Dex 3 +2 synergy + 0 base + 0 extra
Spellcraft +16 = Int 3 +2 synergy + 9 base + 2 extra
Spot +9 (+11 with Familiar's Alertness) = Wis 2 (Familiar) + 4 base + 3 extra

The "base" are skill ranks from the base creature, the "extra" are the additional skill ranks it gets for being a higher-Int Undead, as follows:

Base Creature Skill Ranks: Appraise 4, Balance 4, Concentration 10, Disable Device 5, Intimidate 4, Jump 4, Knowledge (arcana) 4, Move Silently 4, Search 4, Spellcraft 9, Spot 4

Extra Old Master Skill Ranks: Balance 2, Bluff 6, Climb 2, Concentration 5, Craft (alchemy) 9, Craft (any one) 5, Know (arcana) 8, Move Silently 3, Search 3, Spellcraft 2, Spot 3

I shuffled a few ranks around from the previous arrangement to get a result I thought was nicer. With the previous iteration of the Old Master's extra 6 ranks in Spellcraft it got Spellcraft +20, which seemed more than it needed, so I moved a few points from it to the Alchemy and Arcana.