Trap Search, circumstance bonus for ...

[Thanee]

That's one of those basic questions in roleplaying to find the right balance between character play and character stats.

Of course, if you would roleplay your character well, or describe the actions in detail, except for stating "I search for traps, I disarm it, I open the door.", it would be much better and a circumstance bonus should be warranted, but if the bonus is unneeded...

It's the same with all those social skills. How to use intimidate on someone? Do you have to find a good phrase to intimidate him with, or simply let the dice speak?

The point here is, that it must come from the player, the player must want to describe it, not necessarily, because he knows, that he'll get a bonus, but because that's the fun about roleplaying!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Belares]

The kind of input I'm still looking for is some idea about how to make traps a challenge for the PLAYER as well as for the PC.

The player is not finding/disabling the traps. The character is and he is the one who has the knowledge. The player should have the knowledge to make sure the character has the skills to find/disable.

You could make the players say exactly what they are doing, but again the are not trap finders/disablers. Of course, some experienced players may have some knowledge due to playing a lot and so may be able to say" I think that if I take this piton and wedge it in this crack then I can disablethe scythe blades".

 

[candidus_cogitens]

Of course, if you ... describe the actions in detail, ... a circumstance bonus should be warranted, but if the bonus is unneeded...

Maybe that's what I'm looking for! I could simply make it impossible for them to notice traps unless they show some kind of imagination. I guess I could just raise the DC by 10 for every trap, and then give them a +10 or +12 circumstance bonus for creativity.

HOWEVER, wouldn't it be even better if the specific actions they describe actually mattered. In other words, suppose the player specifies that he's searching by running his hand over the surface of the wall ... That could be exactly the thing he needs to do to find the most revealing clues about the trap, but it could also be completely irrelevant--it might not be that kind of trap!

In combat, it sometimes really MATTERS whether you choose a piercing or bludgeoning weapon. But for some reason, we tend to view a PC's approach to searching as inconsequential!

I disagree that the creativity has to come from the player. If the DM doesn't create challenges that require and reward creativity, then the players will tend not to be creative. It is the mark of a good DM to give challenges that make the players make decisions that matter.

 

[kreynolds]

HOWEVER, wouldn't it be even better if the specific actions they describe actually mattered. In other words, suppose the player specifies that he's searching by running his hand over the surface of the wall ... That could be exactly the thing he needs to do to find the most revealing clues about the trap, but it could also be completely irrelevant--it might not be that kind of trap!

It could also get his hand cut off, which is why your player isn't saying he's doing that in the first place.

In combat, it sometimes really MATTERS whether you choose a piercing or bludgeoning weapon. But for some reason, we tend to view a PC's approach to searching as inconsequential!

Not really. The rules simply view searching for traps as a skill that involves many procedures that are carefully executed so that you don't accidentally set the trap off.

If you make Searching for Traps to complex and involve too much interaction, you might as well play GURPS.

I disagree that the creativity has to come from the player. If the DM doesn't create challenges that require and reward creativity, then the players will tend not to be creative. It is the mark of a good DM to give challenges that make the players make decisions that matter.

Thus the double-edge sword.

 

[Weeble]

All I am saying is that sometimes you as the DM can interject something about the situation to make the players feel a certian way.

physically, but not emotionally.

 

[Nail]

HOWEVER, wouldn't it be even better if the specific actions they describe actually mattered....<snip>

Sure. It'd be great. <shakes head>

But here's the thing: ye think th' trap is "well-designed and thought out"....but it might not be. Are you, th' DM, a mechanical engineer or an architect in RL? Doubt it. So yer "perfect trap" may have lots 'o flaws......and I'll be d@mned if th' player is a real "box man".

So what? Well, if yer askin' me, the player, 'ta tell you how my PC's gonna search fer it, I'll have one set of assumptions about how traps work, an' you'll have another set. An' since neither of us really knows anything substantial about trap construction or detection, we're bound to have a few "misunderstandings". (Admit it: even the Traps & Treachery book from S&S doesn't have enuff detail fer this.....an' it's one 'o th' best out there.)

*********************
DM:"How, exactly, do you search for traps?"

Player: "I carefully run my hands across the wall, as I......."

DM: "SMACK! A blade comes out of the wall and cuts your arm off!"

Player: "Whaaaaaa! I wasn't pressing against the wall....."

<arguement ensues about player's exact actions>
*********************

Ye want that???!!! Yer daft.

Stick "flavor" in role-playing, not roll-playing. Roll th' ferkin' Search check, 'n be done wit' it.

-Nail

 

[Gromm]

Technically the DM can never tell the players how they feel. They are immune to Intimidates, Diplomacy, and the like. Says so right in the book.
As far as the exotic trap, it really depends on the situation. Maybe the trap can't be disarmed in the usual way, with a successful Disable Device, the Rogue should know how to disable it or what it does but maybe he can't do it too easily. Its not completely illogical (though it should be rare, never the norm).

 

[kreynolds]

Technically the DM can never tell the players how they feel. They are immune to Intimidates, Diplomacy, and the like. Says so right in the book.

Exactly. If one of my NPCs makes an intimidate check, the players aren't actually intimidated, but I tell them something like this, "Borak the massively-gargantuan-greatsword-carrying-warrior assumes a very defensive stance, as if readying himself for a fight. You see his frame tense and his muscles bulge. You can tell, simply by his demeanor, that this guy means business and that he can take care of himself."

That doesn't literally intimidate their characters, but it might intimidate them (the players), which works just as well.

 

[thalmin]

If you want the players to role play situations more, start giving bonus XP for good roleplaying.

 

[kreynolds]

If you want the players to role play situations more, start giving bonus XP for good roleplaying.

I'll second that. It's a common practice for me.