D&D General Is WotC's 5E D&D easy? Trust me this isn't what you think... maybe

[Charlaquin]

But you used the word "suck." As in they are terrible. I used the word poorly written because the concepts and ideas behind the old adventures are less clear than the newer ones.

I used “suck” I think they are of generally pretty low quality as adventurers for a TTRPG, and I’m speaking informally. It was not my intent to say that they’re terrible in every way, sorry if my casual use of language gave that impression.

For example, combat is much more dynamic in these newer adventures; environment, skill checks, and objectives are more clearly laid out for the DM than a room with 100 skeletons for absolutely no reason. Heck, even the ecosystem's ecology makes more sense in modern adventures.

I don’t think a dungeon having an ecology that “makes sense” is terribly important, personally. Dynamic environments are certainly good, but I wouldn’t agree with the assessment that 5e adventures have more dynamic environments that older modules; on the contrary I think they’re generally less dynamic. Elements like skill checks being more clearly laid out is a weakness in my opinion, as I think such things are better adjudicated in play than laid out ahead of time.

That is the point I am making. You, because of your vast experience and incredibly deep knowledge of D&D, feel the need to improve them. This might be for you as DM or for your very experienced players at the table. But give an inexperienced or even slightly experienced 19-year-old, with a passion for learning how to DM, Rime of the Frostmaiden, and there is no need to change it. It runs fine for them and their players. I watch this happen all the time. They learn from these adventures. They also have a lot of fun!

It’s great that they have fun with it, but I don’t think “they like it because they haven’t experienced anything better” is a very compelling defense of these modules’ quality.

And that is my point. You think they "suck" because they don't fit your vast experience. You have seen or read it all, so you need to change it. Or your players have seen it all, so you need to change it. Or they didn't quite get the plot just right, so you need to change it. Or they didn't leave the plot open-ended enough, so you need to change it. Or they didn't include your players' character arcs well enough, so you had to change it. Whatever it is, there is no Goldilocks's Zone for you because your experience wants more than a 200-300 page book can deliver.

But for that 19-year-old...

Except there clearly is a Goldilocks zone. There are adventures I think work fine, even quite well, straight out of the box. Lost Mine of Phandelver is a great example. I would also say a lot of 5e’s adventure anthologies have individual dungeons/adventures that are good out of the box too; unfortunately they are often lacking in context, due to being parts of anthologies. Still pretty good, but they still require work on the DM’s part to incorporate into a campaign.

 

[Scott Christian]

I used “suck” I think they are of generally pretty low quality as adventurers for a TTRPG, and I’m speaking informally. It was not my intent to say that they’re terrible in every way, sorry if my casual use of language gave that impression.

Thanks for the clarification.

I don’t think a dungeon having an ecology that “makes sense” is terribly important, personally. Dynamic environments are certainly good, but I wouldn’t agree with the assessment that 5e adventures have more dynamic environments that older modules; on the contrary I think they’re generally less dynamic. Elements like skill checks being more clearly laid out is a weakness in my opinion, as I think such things are better adjudicated in play than laid out ahead of time.

I can see that point of view. It does seem to be a matter of preference.

It’s great that they have fun with it, but I don’t think “they like it because they haven’t experienced anything better” is a very compelling defense of these modules’ quality.

I have to disagree. These modules need to pander to both sides; people like you that can steal parts of it and people with limited experience that use it in full. Since it is useful in both cases, I think that points to the quality of the adventure.

Except there clearly is a Goldilocks zone. There are adventures I think work fine, even quite well, straight out of the box. Lost Mine of Phandelver is a great example. I would also say a lot of 5e’s adventure anthologies have individual dungeons/adventures that are good out of the box too; unfortunately they are often lacking in context, due to being parts of anthologies. Still pretty good, but they still require work on the DM’s part to incorporate into a campaign.

Well, I always think there is work on the DM's part that needs to be done. Especially if you want it tailored to your table. And even more especially if you care about consistency of story arcs. But that is just my opinion.

 

[pawsplay]

An adventure should be "easy." Let's say there are five main encounters, and you have a 95% chance of winning each one. That's a 77% chance of winning ALL of them, or to put it another way, nearly a 1 in 4 chance of a party wipe. Actually sweating danger should be comparatively rare. Individual encounters can be dangerous, and you can tune them as needed. Most standard encounters can become quite deadly simply by playing the monsters as out for blood. Do you know what the most deadly spell in D&D is? It's magic missile.

 

[tetrasodium]

An adventure should be "easy." Let's say there are five main encounters, and you have a 95% chance of winning each one. That's a 77% chance of winning ALL of them, or to put it another way, nearly a 1 in 4 chance of a party wipe. Actually sweating danger should be comparatively rare. Individual encounters can be dangerous, and you can tune them as needed. Most standard encounters can become quite deadly simply by playing the monsters as out for blood. Do you know what the most deadly spell in D&D is? It's magic missile.

You have a misplaced expectation of what the story is about and have described writing the path of a main character in a novel rather than playing a PC through an adventure. The adventure is a story about the world and how a band of heroes impact the world with memories and fun to be had along the way by the players. If a PC is killed the story of a band of adventurers impacting the world will continue

Spoiler: here is proof

Daenerys Targaryen
Joffrey Baratheon
Ramsay Bolton
Jon Snow
Eddard Stark
Olenna Tyrell
Tywin Lannister
Night King
Walder Frey
Theon Greyjoy
Robert Baratheon
Cersei Lannister
Oberyn Martell
Jorah Mormont
Khal Drogo
Petyr Baelish
Tommen Baratheon
Viserys Targaryen
Renly Baratheon
Tyene Sand
Lysa Arryn
Lyanna Mormont
Rickon Stark
Ygritte
Bran Stark
Euron Greyjoy
Lord Varys
Grand Maester Pycelle
Pyat Pree
Jaime Lannister
Shireen Baratheon
Hodor
Ellaria Sand
Tyrion Lannister
Kraznys mo Nakloz
Sandor Clegane
Jeor Mormont
Melisandre
Arya Stark
Robb Stark
Qyburn
Gregor Clegane
Stannis Baratheon
Thoros
Osha
Roose Bolton
Benjen Stark
Syrio Forel
High Sparrow
Barristan Selmy
Jojen Reed

Some of those even enjoy d&d style revolving doors of living>dead>living cycles