D&D 5E wis Warlocks and con Sorcerers

[Henadic Theologian]

This is more a theoretical "what-if" than an actual desire to change either of these classes. But with having both the Warlock and Sorcerer (and Bard...) currently using Charisma as their prime casting requirement, what sort of effect on play would there be if we switched one (or both) off using Charisma as their casting ability?

In the case of Warlocks, what if Wisdom was their primary casting ability? Where Clerics are driven by their unshakable faith (Will) in a god, the Warlock instead is the master of "common sense" in understanding the contract between them and a supernatural entity - not the letter of the law (which would be Int), but the intent and ways to manipulate it to their benefit. The warlock knows the ins and outs of how to manipulate that "binding oath" between the two to drawn on magical power for their own use. There might be some secondary knock-on effects of "faith in the contract" or the patron, but likely not to the level of a cleric. What knock-on game effects would this have on mechanics and play? What sort of story side elements could be brought in on this?

As for Sorcerers, what if Constitution became their primary casting ability? As vessels and conduits of innate magic, the strength of their body (their vessel) directly relates to their ability to draw on and harness magical power and wield it without burning themselves out. As above, what effects would this have on mechanics and story for the Sorcerer?

In the Sorcerer's case, I think one minor side effect might be that multiclassing Barbarian/Sorcerer might be more appealing and to some degree fitting story elements of the mixing of the two.

You can do a Wis Warlock as long as you don't multiclass.

Pick say Acolyte background for Guiding Bolt, and a couple of attack cantrips and pick Wisdom as your casting stat for them. You can fire off wisdom based spells using your Warlock slots. Then as you level pick mostly spells that are summons or utility from the Warlock class where possible. Pick Chain Pact for your first Invocation. Use your wisdom spells from feats for offense along with Summon X Spells.

 

[Stalker0]

The wis warlock I think is fine, there is some power creep but its not crazy. The biggest thing is that it gives them a stellar wis saving throw (rather than a cha save which isn't nearly as useful).

The con sorc is a definate power bump, boosts one of the most important saves (rather than one of the least), gives more hp, gives stellar con saves (combined with the fact sorcs already have proficiency on con saves). It would definately be the strongest caster "chassis" at base, and so you would likely need to weaken the class in other areas if you want to maintain roughly the same balance.

 

[Peter BOSCO'S]

Is it really the wise people who make Faustian bargains with sinister entities from beyond? Warlocks should stay based on Charisma because it is always the cool kids who never had to face the consequences of their actions who make those kind of deals, confident that it will work out fine for them, because everything else always has.

 

[SkidAce]

/tangent

We had a con based monk, worked pretty good. Didnt seem OP for his Con to adjust AC, cause they were "toughing it out" through the hits.

YMMV.

 

[Stormonu]

Is it really the wise people who make Faustian bargains with sinister entities from beyond? Warlocks should stay based on Charisma because it is always the cool kids who never had to face the consequences of their actions who make those kind of deals, confident that it will work out fine for them, because everything else always has.

Not wise so much as street smarts, I'm thinking. Utilizing loopholes, playing the patron and otherwise manipulating the contract to their benefit. Where the cleric obeys, the warlock finagles and "always has an angle".

 

[Mind of tempest]

If you didn't seek to harm or upset someone, then whatever you did that resulted in you being blocked/ignored by the other poster was an accident. You weren't expecting your actions or words to lead to this particular and unfortunate moment. The other poster otoh chose to do what they did. They could have done the alternative and talked it out with you instead in order to clear up any misunderstanding. But I think they owe you the apology. Not you.

Do you and this other poster have a friend in common who would be willing to intermediate between the two of you? Someone who can bridge the gap? If you do, see if they can help you two out.

no I do not

 

[Corinnguard]

no I do not

Do you happen to know their username of the individual who is currently blocking/ignoring you? Do they visit the forums here on EN World?

 

[CreamCloud0]

Not wise so much as street smarts, I'm thinking. Utilizing loopholes, playing the patron and otherwise manipulating the contract to their benefit. Where the cleric obeys, the warlock finagles and "always has an angle".

i think having any notable amount of street smarts would inform any would-be-warlock that trying to manipulate the ancient unknowable very powerful entity who has probably been doing this for a very very long time, far longer than they've been alive, that this would be a bad idea, it'd be like a two-week-experienced street-corner card shark thinking they can dupe all the dealers in Vegas, at once.

 

[Corinnguard]

i think having any notable amount of street smarts would inform any would-be-warlock that trying to manipulate the ancient unknowable very powerful entity who has probably been doing this for a very very long time, far longer than they've been alive, that this would be a bad idea, it'd be like a two-week-experienced street-corner card shark thinking they can dupe all the dealers in Vegas, at once.

Even worse, the entity knows that the character is trying to deceive them and decides to play around with them by pretending to be deceived. Later on, it tells the smug warlock that it knew all along. What happens after that is anyone's guess.

 

[Xeviat]

I love the notion of Con Sorcerers. As it is now, 80% of characters at my tables throughout all of 5E have had 14 Con, 15% have had 16, and 5% had 12. A Con Sorcerer would give us a class that pushed got 16>18>20 and that's neat.

Plus if we have an Int Mystic, then we'd have 2 full casters for each mental and 1 for Con.