D&D General Warlocks: Charisma vs Intelligence

[Xeviat]

Pretty sure the only dragon type attack in Gen 1 was dragon rage, which deals fixed damage, so whether it was physical or special was irrelevant. Gen 2 introduced Dragon Breath, Outrage, and Twister, which were special.

Twister! All I remember was its power was really really low so it hardly mattered.

 

[Xeviat]

Instead, I offer you this tidbit: Broth is meat tea. You steep meat in boiling or near boiling water in order to extract nutrients from the material, which is discarded when the steeping process is complete. Various forms of instant "meat tea" exist, and dried material can be reconstituted to make it quickly. It's sold in both full liquid form and concentrated/dried form. Legally there's not all that much different between them. It just feels weird and uncomfortable to say that you're "steeping" meat and bones to extract their flavor and nutrients.

I had a jar of powdered chicken bouillon base that had on its instructions "stir 1 tbsp into 1 cup of boiling water for a delicious beverage." I tried chicken tea one cold winter day, and it was nice.

Now to caffinate it!

 

[Clint_L]

I see this discussion come up every now and then, but it's reared its head in my brain and I'd like to poll the ENWorld community and chat about it.

What's your opinion on the Warlock's casting stat? Do you prefer Intelligence or Charisma?

I'm currently leaning Intelligence. The balance of caster stats is off. An Intelligence Warlock would allow the stats to be balanced...

Why does this matter?

 

[Xeviat]

This is why willpower and perception should be different mechanics, and not both based on the same number.

If I could figure out how to split Dex into Dexterity and Agility, and split Wisdom into Willpower and Awareness, I would. Wis and Dex's importance to most suggests they could maybe do with a split.

Then again, condensing the 6 stats into four also has promise. Str+Con would be neat, because then finessers and spellcasters would still want some for the HP. 2 mental could be Intelligence+Awareness and Willpower+Charisma ... But that way is the way of madness.

As long as we still get to roll 3d6 and have the best stat with 666 so we can keep to our roots.

 

[ezo]

I'd rather change Wisdom to Willpower, and divorce perception from ability scores. My preferred OSR does this.

Willpower was moved from Wisdom to Charisma because Wisdom was already a great ability (and still is very important!).

Of course, now they went overboard on having Charisma too important for too many classes...

Perception was never a part of Wisdom until later on. I don't know when WotC made that move? 3E? 4E? 5E?

My preferred method is you have a mental strength, mental constition, and mental dexterty.

 

[Xeviat]

I'd rather change Wisdom to Willpower, and divorce perception from ability scores. My preferred OSR does this.

I ran a level 5 to 12 campaign where I gave everyone Perception proficiency and treated it more like a saving throw/defense. My reasoning is skills should be things you actively choose to do, while saves are reflexive. (so searching is a skill check, but not getting surprised by an assassin is a saving throw/defense).

But I also gave everyone proficiency in all saves and upped the save DC formula to 10+prof+mods. It worked out real well!

 

[Xeviat]

If we absolutely have to stick to six stats (personally, I think fewer, four or maybe five, would be better) then I think we should merge Constitution and Strength (call it "Might"), turn "Wisdom" into Perception, and fold the intellectual part thereof into Intelligence and the "I can't be dominated" part thereof into Charisma. Then Dexterity can be split into "Quickness" or something similar, covering just Initiative, Acrobatics, and what we currently call "Dex saves", while "Precision" or just "Dexterity" covers fine-detail movement (Thievery, AC, hit/dmg with Finesse, etc.)

With that, you've finally got a recipe for stats where each one is still pretty powerful and nobody really wants to dump any of them. Precision is really the only one that doesn't have something kinda important attached to it, since anyone not using finesse weapons or medium/light armor doesn't really care.

Dexterity would have to be To Hit and Strength would have to be Damage for all* weapon attacks. Bow power is based on strength. Even crossbows require strength to load (but that can be assisted with a winch). Heck, even guns need strength; recoil is probably a big problem if the gun is stronger than you (strength requirement, attack penalty if your Str is too low?).

 

[Xeviat]

Why does this matter?

113 posts says people have opinions about it and it matters to some people.

 

[Xeviat]

Perception was never a part of Wisdom until later on. I don't know when WotC made that move? 3E? 4E? 5E?

My preferred method is you have a mental strength, mental constition, and mental dexterty.

Sense Motive, Spot, and Listen skills used Wisdom in 3E. I only played 2E through Baldur's Gate so I don't know how it was handled in 2E.

 

[ezo]

Sense Motive, Spot, and Listen skills used Wisdom in 3E. I only played 2E through Baldur's Gate so I don't know how it was handled in 2E.

They added Alertness and Observation in the Thief Guide in 2E.

Alertness was WIS and Observation was INT.

Something like Perception, but not quite the same thing.