D&D 5E wis Warlocks and con Sorcerers

[Tinker Gnome]

The problem I see with extending caster stats into Constitution, is that then you are moving into "physical attribute" land. And Dexterity and Strength do not lend themselves, easily/obviously, to types of spell casting/casters.

3.0 Psionics used all of the stats for using Psionics. I think the STR based one was called an Egoist.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

How do these variant abilities work compared to the spellcasting abilities already in use?

Mostly the same. It just adds a little variety.

 

[Blue Orange]

There could be Orgone (ORG), the seventh ability, dedicated solely to spellcasting ability.

A lot of games have done this for exactly this reason.

It's kind of interesting--Call of Cthulhu has POW: basically willpower, but it winds up working as 'the magic stat'. The various White Wolf games had an Arete/Gnosis/etc. 'magical skill' stat.

As an aside, I'd encourage any of you looking for some amusement to go look up Wilhelm Reich's original theories about Orgone. NSFW...

 

[Mind of tempest]

A lot of games have done this for exactly this reason.

It's kind of interesting--Call of Cthulhu has POW: basically willpower, but it winds up working as 'the magic stat'. The various White Wolf games had an Arete/Gnosis/etc. 'magical skill' stat.

As an aside, I'd encourage any of you looking for some amusement to go look up Wilhelm Reich's original theories about Orgone. NSFW...

why did I already know about that theory?

also where did the crystal guy go did something happen to him I can't see his posts?

 

[Corinnguard]

also where did the crystal guy go did something happen to him I can't see his posts?

Maybe he is blocking/ignoring you for some reason?

 

[Gorck]

I recently posted in another thread (I forget which one) my notes for a CON-based Sorcerer. The gist of it was: they use CON as their casting stat, they use the Power Point system from the DMG, and they can “overchannel” by spending HP in place of PP. Unfortunately, I’m at work right now and the file is on my home computer. Maybe I’ll remember to repost it when I get home. Also, it’s designed for 2014, so I might need to tweak it for 2024 once I get the book.

Here it is if anyone cares;

Spoiler: Constitution-based Sorcerer

Constitution-based Sorcerer
Optional Class Features
By Scott Maglio
​

The 5th Edition Dungeons & Dragons Player’s Handbook separates arcane casters into 3 classes. The first is the quintessential Wizard, who strives to learn magic through years of hard work and diligent study of large, dusty tomes. Their ability to learn and memorize spells means that their spell-casting is rooted in Intelligence.
The second is the Warlock, who bargains for magic using shortcuts and making deals with higher beings who grant them the power they seek. Their desire for quick results through unscrupulous methods means that their spell-casting is based on Charisma.
The final class is the Sorcerer, who doesn’t necessarily strive for magic, but instead is born with innate magical ability. Their power is coursing through their veins, and eventually manifests itself over time. Because their ability to cast magic is a part of their very essence, their spell-casting relies on . . . Charisma!?
I have always felt that the Sorcerer should have their spell-casting based on Constitution, so the following is an optional approach to make the Sorcerer a Constitution-based spellcaster instead. You gain abilities listed in the Player’s Handbook as usual, with these abilities superseding them where noted.

Quick Build
You can make a sorcerer quickly by following these suggestions. First, Constitution should be your highest ability score, followed by Dexterity. Second, choose the hermit background. Third, choose the light, prestidigitation, ray of frost, and shocking grasp cantrips, along with the 1st-level spells shield and magic missile.

Spellcasting
1st-level sorcerer feature, which replaces Spell Slots and changes Spellcasting Ability respectively. Use the original Cantrips, Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher, and Spellcasting Focus.

Spell Points
Rather than using Spell Slots, you gain a pool of Power Points to cast from. Each spell has a point cost based on its level. The Spell Point Cost table summarizes the cost in spell points of slots from 1st to 9th level. Cantrips don’t require slots and therefore don’t require spell points.
Instead of gaining a number of spell slots to cast your spells from the Spellcasting feature, you gain a pool of spell points instead. You expend a number of spell points to create a spell slot of a given level, and then use that slot to cast a spell. You can’t reduce your spell point total to less than 0, and you regain all spent spell points when you finish a long rest.
Spells of 6th level and higher are particularly taxing to cast. You can use spell points to create one slot of each level of 6th or higher. You can’t create another slot of the same level until you finish a long rest.
The number of spell points you have to spend is based on your level as a spellcaster, as shown in the Spell Points by Level table. Your level also determines the maximum-level spell slot you can create. Even though you might have enough points to create a slot above this maximum, you can’t do so.

Spellcasting Ability
Constitution is your spellcasting ability for your sorcerer spells, since the power of your magic comes from the very depths of your being. You use your Constitution modifier whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Constitution modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a sorcerer spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.

Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier

Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Constitution modifier​

Life Tap
2nd-level sorcerer feature, which replaces Font of Magic (including Sorcery Points and Flexible Casting).

At 2nd level, you tap into a deep wellspring of magic within yourself. This wellspring drains your own health to continue casting after your natural talent has run out. When your Spell Point level has reached 0, or when your casting would reduce your Spell Point level below 0, you can decrease your Hit Points to make up the difference. You do so at rate of 1 Hit Point for each Spell Point required for the casting. You can reduce your Hit Points on multiple castings, but you may only reduce them by a maximum number equal to your sorcerer level, until you finish a long rest.

Metamagic
3rd-level sorcerer feature, which alters the Metamagic feature in the Player’s Handbook.

At 3rd level, you gain the Metamagic ability as listed in the Player’s Handbook. However, each Metamagic ability uses Spell Points rather than the obsolete Sorcery Points.

Spell Point Cost
Spell Level​	Point Cost​	​	Spell Level​	Point Cost​
1st​	2​	​	6th​	9​
2nd​	3​	​	7th​	10​
3rd​	5​	​	8th​	11​
4th​	6​	​	9th​	13​
5th​	7​	​	​
Spell Points by Level
Spell Level​	Spell Points​	Max Spell Level​
1st​	4​	1st​
2nd​	8​	1st​
3rd​	17​	2nd​
4th​	21​	2nd​
5th​	32​	3rd​
6th​	38​	3rd​
7th​	45​	4th​
8th​	52​	4th​
9th​	66​	5th​
10th​	74​	5th​
11th​	84​	6th​
12th​	85​	6th​
13th​	96​	7th​
14th​	97​	7th​
15th​	109​	8th​
16th​	110​	8th​
17th​	124​	9th​
18th​	132​	9th​
19th​	143​	9th​
20th​	153​	9th​

Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything Optional Class Feature

Magical Guidance

5rd-level sorcerer feature, which alters the Magical Guidance feature in Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything.

At 5th level, can tap into your inner wellspring of magic to try to conjure success from failure. When you make an ability check that fails, you can spend 1 Spell Point to reroll the d20, and you must use the new roll, potentially turning a failure into a success.

 

[Stormonu]

It might be better to leave it up to the individual spellcaster then, when it comes to deciding which spellcasting ability they want to use when casting their spells.

I'm a little hesitant to allow the player to choose ANY mental ability, without some form of trade-off. I actually want more MAD in the game to make every ability as close to equally important as possible - and that characters can't master everything by just having an 18 in one ability and an 8 in everything else. Though I have been wondering if 2 choices for casting stat might be worth looking at.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Maybe he is blocking/ignoring you for some reason?

but how am I to apologise, if I did wrong and did not seek to harm or upset someone I am supposed to apologise?

 

[Corinnguard]

but how am I to apologise, if I did wrong and did not seek to harm or upset someone I am supposed to apologise?

If you didn't seek to harm or upset someone, then whatever you did that resulted in you being blocked/ignored by the other poster was an accident. You weren't expecting your actions or words to lead to this particular and unfortunate moment. The other poster otoh chose to do what they did. They could have done the alternative and talked it out with you instead in order to clear up any misunderstanding. But I think they owe you the apology. Not you.

Do you and this other poster have a friend in common who would be willing to intermediate between the two of you? Someone who can bridge the gap? If you do, see if they can help you two out.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

I have been thinking, and I think you could thematically make a good con warlock, where you would have to spend hit points to cast non-cantrip spells (utility spells would be invocations, and wouldn't cost anything), but if you do damage, you automatically get some hps back. Your patron gets paid by your hit points and gets some of the points that get released when you damage someone, and to reward (motivate) you, you get the rest. You wouldn't have spell slots, per se, if you wanted to cast yourself into an early grave, as far as your patron is concerned, go for it.

As a little frosting on the cake, you could get the same proportion of hit points back when your pact implement (familiar, blade, or cantrip from tome) does damage to someone without costing you anything.

Edit: If you used something like vampiric touch, you could double dip, get hps from your deal for doing damage, and get hps from the spell from doing damage. Anything that makes vampiric touch to be a better spell for warlocks is good by me