Converting prehistoric creatures
Cleon
Legend
Here's the AD&D original version of the "Ferry Turtle".
Ferry
Most visitors to Silvanost must cross the Thon-Thalas to enter the city. During the city’s early days, traditional ferryboats used rope lines or magic to move passengers from Fallon Island and the mainland. However, priests of the Blue Phoenix later enlarged several turtles to do the job.
As time passed, these large turtles bred, creating even more turtles to replace the older ones. When Speaker Lorac’s Nightmare twisted the forest and tainted the river, most of the turtles died. Thankfully, when Porthios and his forces cleared the forest of the Nightmares, the kirath discovered several turtles and a clutch of large eggs. Since then, this clutch has hatched, and now large turtles pull barges between the island and the mainland. Even the drain of the Silvanesti Shield hasn’t stopped these strong creatures performing their job.
Giant turtle: AC 1; MV 3; Sw 9; HD 4+4; hp 30; THAC0 17; #AT 1, Dmg 2d6 (bite); SZ L (8’ long); Int low (5); Al N.
Originally appeared in The Sylvan Veil (1999).
Ferry
Most visitors to Silvanost must cross the Thon-Thalas to enter the city. During the city’s early days, traditional ferryboats used rope lines or magic to move passengers from Fallon Island and the mainland. However, priests of the Blue Phoenix later enlarged several turtles to do the job.
As time passed, these large turtles bred, creating even more turtles to replace the older ones. When Speaker Lorac’s Nightmare twisted the forest and tainted the river, most of the turtles died. Thankfully, when Porthios and his forces cleared the forest of the Nightmares, the kirath discovered several turtles and a clutch of large eggs. Since then, this clutch has hatched, and now large turtles pull barges between the island and the mainland. Even the drain of the Silvanesti Shield hasn’t stopped these strong creatures performing their job.
Giant turtle: AC 1; MV 3; Sw 9; HD 4+4; hp 30; THAC0 17; #AT 1, Dmg 2d6 (bite); SZ L (8’ long); Int low (5); Al N.
Originally appeared in The Sylvan Veil (1999).
Cleon
Legend
OK, compared to a Nikt'oo it's got a 4-point higher AC, slower speed, 1 more HD, lots more HP, does slightly less damage and is a bit smaller.
Most importantly, it is intelligent.
So, turn a Nikt'oo into a Magical Beast with Int 5, add 4 NA and an additional HD, then lower the speed to 5 ft., swim 30 ft.
We should cut the Nikt'oo's Aquatic, Amphibious and Sever Limb abilities, then add a Hold Breath ability.
Do we want to give it the Giant Sea Turtle's Fortification and its ability to Withdraw its limbs?
Cleon
Legend
What's up with this hash tag? I didn't put a hyperlink in there.
Mortis
First Post
The extra HD takes the hp up to 32 which is about what the original had. Or do you fancy bumping Con up a point (to 20) which will take the hp to 36?
Yeah, why not.
Regards
Mortis
Last edited:
Cleon
Legend
I think your sums are wrong there. As a magical beast it'll get 10-sided Hit Dice, giving it 4d10+16 HD with Con 19, for an average of 38 hit points.
Let's see, a 3 HD AD&D Nikt'oo averages 13.5 hp, which is less than half the 30 hp given for a "Ferry Turtle", which in turn is less than the 22 hp average of that turtle's 4+4 HD.
If we assume the 30 hp is just because the examples in Sylvan Veil are exceptional specimens and just use the average hit points (22 hp vs 13.5 hp), that's a difference of +7.5 hp or +63%. That suggests our 3E update should have about 40-41 hp, based on our Nikt'oo conversion's 25 hp.
To get close to that hp target we need to either increase its Constitution to the next bonus number (Con 20-21), giving it an average of 42 hp, or give it Toughness, giving it an average of 41 hp.
Hmm, I'm tempted by the Toughness solution, since Con 21 just feels a little too high. Maybe make it a bonus feat?
I think we've got enough for me to start a Working Draft. I'll launch one after I finish work today.
Oh, one thing I forgot to mention - I think it should have a 1d8 bite (based on the damage progression of the Sea Turtles) rather than the Nikt'oo's 1d10 damage.
Cleon
Legend
Ferry Turtle Working Draft
Ferry Turtle
Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 4d10+20 (42 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 5 ft. (1 squares), swim 30 ft.
Armor Class: 19 (-1 size, -1 Dex, +11 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 19
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+13
Attack: Bite +8 melee (1d8+7)
Full Attack: Bite +8 melee (1d8+7)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Fortification, hold breath, indefatigable swim, low-light vision, withdraw
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +3, Will +2
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 9, Con 20, Int 5, Wis 12, Cha 5
Skills: Listen +5, Spot +8, Swim +13
Feats: Alertness, Endurance
Environment: Temperate or warm aquatic
Organization: Solitary or bale (2-8)
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 5-8 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: —
A turtle the size of a large ox. It has a smooth flat shell and powerful flippers.
Ferry turtles are intelligent chelonians that are often employed to tow watercraft. They were originally created as a means of river transportation, by magically enlarging ordinary turtles, and bred true through a quirk of fate.
A ferry turtle measures about 8 feet from snout to tail, with a shell 6 feet in diameter, and weighs about 2500 pounds.
COMBAT
Ferry turtles are docile creatures who would rather swim away or withdraw into their shells than fight. When forced, however, they attack with a powerful bite.
Fortification (Ex): Whenever a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on a ferry turtle there is a 75% chance that the special attack is negated and its damage is rolled normally, similar to the effect of armor enchanted with the Light Fortification quality. This chance increases to 100% when the turtle withdraws its appendages into its shell.
Hold Breath (Ex): A ferry turtle can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 10 × its Constitution score before it risks drowning. For a typical ferry turtle, this is 200 rounds, or 20 minutes.
Indefatigable Swim (Ex): A ferry turtle can swim for 16 hours instead of the 8 hours of a normal creature. The remaining time is usually spent resting and eating. Thus, a ferry turtle can move twice as many miles in a day as its 30 ft. swim speed would indicate. If a ferry turtle swims for longer than 16 hours per day it can become worn out (see the Forced March subsection of the Overland Movement rules). A ferry turtle can not use Indefatigable Swim while under the effect of any spell or special ability that increases its speed.
A ferry turtle can eat and sleep during a Indefatigable Swim and continue swimming. If it encounters a threat or unexpected obstacle while "sleep swimming" it can attempt a Listen or Spot checks to notice it, at a -5 penalty. If it succeeds the ferry turtle immediately wakes up.
Withdraw (Ex): A giant sea turtle can pull in its head and limbs to protect its vulnerable areas. While withdrawn, the tortoise cannot take any actions other than exiting its shell, but it gains cover. Withdrawing into its shell also grants the sea turtle heavy fortification, giving it 100% resistance to critical hits.
Skills: A ferry turtle has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. A ferry turtle can use its Dexterity modifier or its Strength modifier on Swim checks. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.
Training A Ferry Turtle
Although intelligent, a ferry turtle requires training before it can bear a rider or drag a barge in combat. To be trained, a ferry turtle must have a friendly attitude toward the trainer (this can be achieved through a successful Diplomacy check). Training a friendly ferry turtle requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check.
Riding a ferry turtle requires an exotic saddle. A ferry turtle can fight while carrying a rider, but the rider cannot also attack unless he or she succeeds on a Ride check. Ferry turtle eggs are worth 1,500 gp apiece on the open market. Professional trainers charge 700 gp to rear or train a ferry turtle.
Carrying Capacity: Due to their sturdy build, ferry turtles can bear exceptionally heavy loads. Their carrying capacity is twice that of an ordinary creature with their size and their Strength. A typical ferry turtle can carry a light load of up to 800 pounds, a medium load of 801-1600 pound, a heavy load of 1601-2400 pounds, and can drag 12,000 pounds.
In Krynn
Ferry turtles were created by priests of the Blue Phoenix to tow passenger-ferries to the city of Silvanost. Most of them died when Speaker Lorac's Nightmare poisoned the Thon-Thalas river, but a few adults and a clutch of eggs survived and those turtles and their descendants still move cargo barges and ferryboats between Fallon island and the mainland.
Originally appeared in The Sylvan Veil (1999)
Ferry Turtle
Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 4d10+20 (42 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 5 ft. (1 squares), swim 30 ft.
Armor Class: 19 (-1 size, -1 Dex, +11 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 19
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+13
Attack: Bite +8 melee (1d8+7)
Full Attack: Bite +8 melee (1d8+7)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Fortification, hold breath, indefatigable swim, low-light vision, withdraw
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +3, Will +2
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 9, Con 20, Int 5, Wis 12, Cha 5
Skills: Listen +5, Spot +8, Swim +13
Feats: Alertness, Endurance
Environment: Temperate or warm aquatic
Organization: Solitary or bale (2-8)
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 5-8 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: —
A turtle the size of a large ox. It has a smooth flat shell and powerful flippers.
Ferry turtles are intelligent chelonians that are often employed to tow watercraft. They were originally created as a means of river transportation, by magically enlarging ordinary turtles, and bred true through a quirk of fate.
A ferry turtle measures about 8 feet from snout to tail, with a shell 6 feet in diameter, and weighs about 2500 pounds.
COMBAT
Ferry turtles are docile creatures who would rather swim away or withdraw into their shells than fight. When forced, however, they attack with a powerful bite.
Fortification (Ex): Whenever a critical hit or sneak attack is scored on a ferry turtle there is a 75% chance that the special attack is negated and its damage is rolled normally, similar to the effect of armor enchanted with the Light Fortification quality. This chance increases to 100% when the turtle withdraws its appendages into its shell.
Hold Breath (Ex): A ferry turtle can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 10 × its Constitution score before it risks drowning. For a typical ferry turtle, this is 200 rounds, or 20 minutes.
Indefatigable Swim (Ex): A ferry turtle can swim for 16 hours instead of the 8 hours of a normal creature. The remaining time is usually spent resting and eating. Thus, a ferry turtle can move twice as many miles in a day as its 30 ft. swim speed would indicate. If a ferry turtle swims for longer than 16 hours per day it can become worn out (see the Forced March subsection of the Overland Movement rules). A ferry turtle can not use Indefatigable Swim while under the effect of any spell or special ability that increases its speed.
A ferry turtle can eat and sleep during a Indefatigable Swim and continue swimming. If it encounters a threat or unexpected obstacle while "sleep swimming" it can attempt a Listen or Spot checks to notice it, at a -5 penalty. If it succeeds the ferry turtle immediately wakes up.
Withdraw (Ex): A giant sea turtle can pull in its head and limbs to protect its vulnerable areas. While withdrawn, the tortoise cannot take any actions other than exiting its shell, but it gains cover. Withdrawing into its shell also grants the sea turtle heavy fortification, giving it 100% resistance to critical hits.
Skills: A ferry turtle has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. A ferry turtle can use its Dexterity modifier or its Strength modifier on Swim checks. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.
Training A Ferry Turtle
Although intelligent, a ferry turtle requires training before it can bear a rider or drag a barge in combat. To be trained, a ferry turtle must have a friendly attitude toward the trainer (this can be achieved through a successful Diplomacy check). Training a friendly ferry turtle requires six weeks of work and a DC 25 Handle Animal check.
Riding a ferry turtle requires an exotic saddle. A ferry turtle can fight while carrying a rider, but the rider cannot also attack unless he or she succeeds on a Ride check. Ferry turtle eggs are worth 1,500 gp apiece on the open market. Professional trainers charge 700 gp to rear or train a ferry turtle.
Carrying Capacity: Due to their sturdy build, ferry turtles can bear exceptionally heavy loads. Their carrying capacity is twice that of an ordinary creature with their size and their Strength. A typical ferry turtle can carry a light load of up to 800 pounds, a medium load of 801-1600 pound, a heavy load of 1601-2400 pounds, and can drag 12,000 pounds.
In Krynn
Ferry turtles were created by priests of the Blue Phoenix to tow passenger-ferries to the city of Silvanost. Most of them died when Speaker Lorac's Nightmare poisoned the Thon-Thalas river, but a few adults and a clutch of eggs survived and those turtles and their descendants still move cargo barges and ferryboats between Fallon island and the mainland.
Originally appeared in The Sylvan Veil (1999)
Last edited:
Cleon
Legend
I just realized I forgot to make the Endurance feat in the Nikt'oo Working Draft a bonus feat, and its Fort save didn't include the Great Fortitude.
It's fixed now.
It's fixed now.
Mortis
First Post
I didn't get them wrong, I just missed the bit where you changed them to magical beasts - which, of course, they should be given their Intelligence.
I'd like Con 20 - but that would make the stats a bit 'wonky', I'd rather not give a 4HD creature 2 bonus feats (assuming it keeps Endurance) but that's probably just me. Don't mind Toughness or even Improved Tougness (is that in the SRD?) as a standard feat.
Regards
Mortis
Cleon
Legend
I didn't get them wrong, I just missed the bit where you changed them to magical beasts - which, of course, they should be given their Intelligence.
Actually, you said they would average 32 hit points, while a 4 Hit Dice Con 19 Animal's averages 34 hit points. (4d8 + 16 = 4*4.5 + 16 = 18 + 16 = 34)
I was thinking we could cut the Weapon Focus (bite), since they don't seem to be aggressive biters like a Nikt'oo and they have the better BAB of a Magical Beast.
Further, their extra HD gives them a point higher base Fort save.
Thus, we could give them Endurance and Toughness as regular feats if we wanted too.
Let's see what Freyar thinks...
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