Converting monsters from Dragon magazine

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I'd be willing to add a note to the background text. Speaking of, it looks like we just need CR before we do the background/tactics. Oh, did you ever add in the last feats? I believe we settled on Augment Summoning, Epic Reflexes and Quicken Spell-Like Ability (greater dispel magic).

So, CR? I'm not thinking of any great comparisons at the moment, but CR 16 does seem about right.
 

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Cleon

Legend
I'd be willing to add a note to the background text.

That's agreed then.

Speaking of, it looks like we just need CR before we do the background/tactics.

So, CR? I'm not thinking of any great comparisons at the moment, but CR 16 does seem about right.

It seems in the right ballpark, although grampa turtle is sorely lacking in distance attacks. I did wonder whether CR 15 would be more appropriate.

Unfortunately, the three SRD creatures with CR 16 are all outsiders with lots of special abilities but few hit points compared to our Turtle, which makes the comparison very hard.

Hmm, let's compare him to the CR 12 Purple Worm - he's got similar bite & swallow methodology and can use plane shift and Size Reduction to sneak up to an opponent like a Worm uses burrow, giving him a way to get into melee reach. He's got 8 more HD and is much bigger, which is worth about +3 CR. He lacks the Purple Worm's nasty venomous stinger, but those SLAs and the Fortification and Dire saves more than make up for it.

Oh, and he can fly, which is handy (actually, near-essential) for a creature of that level.

Yeah, that sounds like CR 16 is OK for him. Let's use that unless someone has a better argument otherwise.

Oh, did you ever add in the last feats? I believe we settled on Augment Summoning, Epic Reflexes and Quicken Spell-Like Ability (greater dispel magic).

Strange, I thought I'd updated it but the Working Draft doesn't have those three feats.

Well it's not like it's the first time an update's mysteriously vanished.

Updating the Grandfather-Of-All-The-Turtles Working Draft.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
OK, we're all agreed, then.

Tactics: As a divine messenger, a grandfather-of-all-turtles usually confronts threats indirectly, through allied adventurers or perhaps with the use of control weather. In direct combat, a grandfather-of-all-turtles summons chelonian allies or attempts to swallow opponents whole.
 

Cleon

Legend
OK, we're all agreed, then.

Tactics: As a divine messenger, a grandfather-of-all-turtles usually confronts threats indirectly, through allied adventurers or perhaps with the use of control weather. In direct combat, a grandfather-of-all-turtles summons chelonian allies or attempts to swallow opponents whole.

I'd rather not mention the "divine messenger" bit in the tactics.

How about this...

A grandfather-of-all-the-turtles is a legendary reptile that some cultures considered a sacred beast. They live in both fresh and salt water, unlike the purely marine father-of-all-the-turtles. Grandfathers-of-all-the-turtles can fly and travel the planes at will, so one may appear in any lake or sea, or even a small pond. These turtles can eat the same aquatic plants and animals as normal giant turtles but prefer to obtain their food magically via their heroes' feast spell-like ability.

Folklore says this mysterious creature is either the avatar of a "Turtle God" or a father-of-all-the-turtles of such vast wisdom it transcended its animal origins. What is certain is grandfathers-of-all-the-turtles sometimes serve as intermediaries between Material Plane people and divine beings such as deities or dragon rulers. Some other grandfather-of-all-the-turtles serve as guardians of aquatic life, particularly turtles.

When not performing some task for nature or the gods, most grandfathers-of-all-the-turtles are extremely shy and furtive. They avoid interacting with humanoids but may watch them secretly, either by shrinking to Diminutive size and hiding or plane shifting to observe from the Ethereal Plane.

Grandfathers-of-all-the-turtles do not value treasure, but do occasionally have treasure given to them by a divine patron to deliver to a chosen mortal (or protect until a worthy owner appears). Such divine treasures are often powerful magic items or even artifacts, and some have served as the foundation relic of a dynasty or religion. The turtle may return to retrieve its patron's gift once the treasure's time on earth is done.

There are reports that some of these creatures possess additional powers. Known examples include breath weapons, transporting incredible loads (in one case, flying while carrying a small island), producing earthquakes, regeneration, the ability to grant wishes to small children, having alternate forms (usually a normal-sized humanoid or an enormous tortle), or the power to store and retrieve items from an extradimensional "strongbox". A grandfather-of-all-the-turtles with a divine patron may by temporarily endowed with a power to fulfill a task or duty, but most such powers are innate abilities.

A grandfather-of-all-the-turtles typically measures from 40 to 60 feet from snout to tail, with a shell from 30 to 50 feet in diameter, and weighs 120 tons or more. The oldest individuals grow to length of 100 feet or more.

Can these things speak? If so, what languages do they have?

COMBAT
Grandfathers-of-all-the-turtles normally only fight if the situation is vital; they would rather fly, swim, or plane shift away from threats. Given time, they use control weather and summon chelonians to gather allies and change the environment in their favor.

A grandfather-of-all-the-turtle's battle tactics are pretty straightforward. It uses change size, flight and/or plane shift to get within melee range of their opponents then attack with its bite. Smaller opponents may be swallowed whole, but only if the turtle judges them too weak to injure it internally. Enemy spellcasters will be countered by greater dispel magic (quickened when necessary).

Grandfathers-of-all-the-turtles routinely apply their arcane sight, heroes' feast, true seeing and water breathing spell-like abilities to themselves. Remember the heroes' feast grants them 1d8+10 temporary hit points, immunity to poison and fear effects, and a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and Will saves.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
I like that!

I think I'd let them speak Aquan, probably Common, and maybe something like Draconic. I was thinking about Celestial, but that doesn't befit their Neutral nature.
 

Cleon

Legend
I like that!

I think I'd let them speak Aquan, probably Common, and maybe something like Draconic. I was thinking about Celestial, but that doesn't befit their Neutral nature.

Definitely Draconic. The oceans are the homes of the Dragon Emperors in some Asian myths, after all.

I'm fine giving them Celestial. There are myths about giant turtles helping nice folk and acting as "messengers for heaven", so it'd help if they talked the same language as the message-givers.

Maybe Sylvan as well?
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
How about Aquan, Celestial, Draconic, and Sylvan? We could perhaps list Aquan and Sylvan as options for more intelligent Granddaddy Turtles.
 

Cleon

Legend


Cleon

Legend
Looks good! Maybe done even...

I just need to remove the red question mark after the languages and I think it's done, although I'll do a quick eyeball check for typos and math errors.

Updating the Grandfather-Of-All-The-Turtles Working Draft.

I've updated the conversion list and the "batches to come" outline.

Are we going to add the father and grandfather turtles to the CC as separate entries? If so, it'd mean we have 11 Sea Monsters, or one more than will fit in a standard batch of 10.

I feel the simplest way around the problem is to fold the Many-Finned and Many-Humped Sea Serpents into one entry, since they've got pretty much the same stats and are both supposedly "serpent whales" à la Basilosaurus.

Do you have any preferences for which Sea Monster we do next? If not, I'd just go for the next one alphabetically - the Great Orm.
 

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