Special Conversion Thread: Moldvay's Undead

Shade said:

The silkie appears too similar to the selkie for a separate conversion.

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After reading them they seem quite different to me, at least in some respects.

The 3E Fiend Folio Selkie (and the Enworld version in the Crypt) both appear to be based on the Monstrous Manual / MC1 version, which in turn seems to derive from the version in the 1E Monster Manual II. The original creature was a seal that turns into a human, like a wolfwere does.

In the Moldvay version, the Silkie has twice the HD and is Large-sized in seal form, it also has innate spellcasting or SLAs (including lightning bolt!). The Moldvay Silkie looks like a Fey to me - they even kidnap human babies and leave changlings in their place.

I might have a stab at converting them, even if you don't fancy it.

EDIT: Oh, and Moldvay's Silkie needs silver or magic weapons to hit, while the Selkie is vulnerable to mundane weapons :ENDEDIT

Shade said:

Let's save Donald Duck for April and Send in the Clowns.

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Saving the best for last, eh.

Shade said:

So I suppose this thread has finally achieved eternal rest.

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The undead never sleep!

Alright, you've convinced me to convert the feylike silkie.

Shade said:

Alright, you've convinced me to convert the feylike silkie.

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Good!

I'll save you some time:

The Silkie
Created by Tom Moldvay
FREQUENCY: Uncommon
NO. APPEARING: 1-8
ARMOR CLASS: 5
MOVE: 30”
HIT DICE: 6
% IN LAIR: 10%
TREASURE TYPE: W (no map)
NO. OF ATTACKS: 2
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 2-8
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Pack attack
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Silver, or + 1 weapon to be hit
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Standard
INTELLIGENCE: High +
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic Good
SIZE: L
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil

The Silkie are a race of wereseals. In their non-animal form, they appear as black-haired, gray-eyed Half Elves and have all typical Half-Elf abilities. Silkie Half Elves usually fight with flint spears, daggers, double-headed axes, or polished stone hammers. On land, Silkie warriors wear multi-layered, sharkskin armor and use sharkskin shields (AC4).

Silkie seals are usually distinguishable from normal seals by their large size. Silkie seals have one ramming attack for 2-8. When fighting enemies who are in small to medium-sized boats, Silkie often try to ram the boat en masse, overturning it, then drowning their victims by force of numbers. Silkie often travel with 2-12 seals (AC6, Move 24”, HD2, ram attack 1-6). They may summon 1-10 dolphins, provided the dolphins are no further than ½ mile away (1-10 turns away swimming at normal speed).

Silkie are allied to dolphins and Aquatic Elves in their war against Sahuagin and Sharks. Good will exists between the Silkie and the non-aquatic races of Elves and Half Elves (except the Drow). Silkie are tolerant toward Tritons, Locathah, Mermen, and any Human to whom they are related. Silkie are antipathetic toward Ixitxachitl or any other evil sea race, and Neutral toward all other races. Silkie do sometimes feud with fishermen, particularly if the fishermen also hunt seal pelts, net Aquatic Elves, or over-fish an area to near depletion.

All Silkie are descended from Angus MacOdrum. In the legendary past, Angus, a high-level Magic-User and Fighter, led an Aquatic Elven army to victory against a Sahuagin incursion. Angus married 12 Aquatic Elven sisters; from these unions came the Silkie race (Silkie enemies claim this legend is an invention, and that Angus was merely an overly proud magician whom the gods cursed and who passed this curse on to his descendants). Clan MacOdrum encompasses Silkies, Humans, and Aquatic Elves in approximately 50%-25%-25% ratio. The MacOdrum of MacOdrum is always a Silkie, who takes the name Angus upon mounting the Clan throne.

An occasional Silkie family builds a sea cave lair but most (90%) Silkie live in Land Under Wave. Land Under Wave is composed of several unnamed cities built completely under water. The cities are separated by hundreds of miles but are linked into one by a magical teleportation mass-transit system. Each city is kept by by a magical bubble dome. The same magic maintains a constant supply of fresh air and the artificial sun which powers the city and provides light, heat, and allows for weather control. It is usually the climate of early summer or late spring in Land Under Wave. Fruits and vegetables grow all year round (the only meat Silkies eat is that which they catch while as seals).

Land Under Wave is a wonder. Buildings are made of multicolored, polished marble, heavily ornamented with gold, silver, and jewels. The architectural style is light and airy. All buildings are interconnected by passages under the sea floor. More than half the land area is taken up by intricate formal gardens with flowing brooks and fountains. Land Under Wave would be a paradise were it not for one fact: All servants are captured Humans.

The Silkie roam isolated rock skenies and beaches at night to dance under the moonlight Whenever they manage to find an unguarded Human baby or child, they will steal that child, replacing it with a soulless changeling. Human MacOdrums are never taken, as they are kin, but all other Humans are fair game.

The captured child is raised in Land Under Wave. The captivity is far from harsh. The child attends Silkie schools and is adopted into Silkie families. Still, the child is a captive, and must serve a full fifty (Human) years from the time the child learns its jobs until the time of release. Even so, captivity is looked upon as a blessing. Time flows differently in Land Under Wave and the period of fifty-year service ages the Human servant but a decade.

Furthermore, the Silkie are natural Magic-Users and teach their servants many useful spells, besides rewarding them handsomely with gold and jewels upon release. Many captives choose to remain in Land Under Wave rather than return to the surface world.

Land Under Wave is filled with magic. The elder Silkie all settle down to a life of elegant leisure intermingled with magical research. Only the younger Silkie venture out of Land Under Wave to mingle with other races and dance beneath the moon.

Unlike other lycanthropes, Silkie can only change into seals by donning a magical seal skin. Any individual who captures a Silkie seal skin can force that Silkie to do his bidding. A controlled Silkie cannot lie to its master and will perform any reasonable service or promise any reasonable ransom for the return of his seal skin (without which he cannot dive deep enough to reach Land Under Wave). As long as the captor continues to act honorably, the Silkie will faithfully fulfill its part of the bargain. Any dishonorable or treacherous act on the captor’s part frees the Silkie from obligation.

Silkies, in human form, may cast the following spells: Friends, Mending, Unseen Servant, Read Magic, Forget, Fools Gold, Gust of Wind, and Lightning Bolt. All spells are cast as a sixth-level Magic-User.

A captive Silkie is under magical geas not to use its spells against its captor. The geas holds only so long as the captor’s actions remain honorable with respect to the Silkie. The elder Silkie have much more powerful spells, particularly sea magic and weather magic, but they venture out of Land Under Wave only on extreme occasions and are encountered very rarely.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #41 (“Dragon’s Bestiary - The Silkie” by Tom Moldvay, Sept 1980).

Uggh, the ancestry of these makes me lean toward humanoid or monstrous humanoid, though. I guess we could do the opposite of the FF selkie: fey with humanoid ancestry.

freyar said:

Uggh, the ancestry of these makes me lean toward humanoid or monstrous humanoid, though. I guess we could do the opposite of the FF selkie: fey with humanoid ancestry.

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I'm leaning towards Fey, if only to distinguish them more from the Fiend Folio Selkie.

The Dragon writeup gives them Large size, but I think that's just for their seal form and their humanoid shape is man-sized. I'd hope Moldvay would have mentioned it if they were 8-foot tall "half elves"!

Yeah, let's go with fey and not giant half-elves.

Shade said:

Yeah, let's go with fey and not giant half-elves.

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Agreed, I think we'd better have full separate stats for both "seal form" and "half-elf form".

Do we have 3E stats for seals? I don't recall ever seeing any.

Anyhow, here's a couple of questions:

Do silkies breathe water? Since both aquatic elves and selkies can, that implies Silkies do too, suggesting we'd better give them the Aquatic subtype. I wouldn't mind giving them water breathing as an innate magical ability instead though, probably one they can use on other creatures - if they carry children off to their cities beneath the seas, they have to have some means of ensuring they don't drown during the trip!

How do we handle the spells? I prefer innate sorcerer levels over SLAs, since that seems a better fit with the description.

For ability scores, apart from a good Int and Charisma (since they're handsome and "High+"Intelligence), I'd like to give them a good Constitution since (a) it will compensate for their small d6 Hit Dice, (b) I'd like their Fort save to be comparable to whatever a regular seal would likely have, and (c) I think they should be good at holding their breath.

Anyway, I'll post a working outline, although it will be pretty bare-bones at first.

Ok, then, Medium fey with alternate form (or change shape?) as Large seals (but only with a magical skin).

How do we want to set abilities?

Also, it mentions that they're "natural Magic-Users" and gives them some SLAs. Want to use that as justification to give them sorc casting as well?

Anyone else find it odd that CG fey keep slaves? I can see getting around the good part in some way if they were lawful and saw it as an exchange (maybe ), but since they're also chaotic???

EDIT: cross-posted with Cleon. Let's do both SLAs and sorcerer casting. And looking back over things, I think alternate form works better than change shape and also works better with a different complete stat block.

Silkie Working Draft

Silkie
Humanoid Form
Medium-Size Fey (Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 6d6+18 (39 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft., swim 30 ft.
Armor Class: 16 (+2 Dex, +2 leather armour, +2 shield), touch 12, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+4
Attack: Masterwork battleaxe or masterwork warhammer +6 melee (1d8+1/×3) or shortspear +6 melee (1d6+1/×3) or masterwork shortspear +6 ranged (1d6+1/×3)
Full Attack: Masterwork battleaxe or masterwork warhammer +6 melee (1d8+1/×3) or shortspear +6 melee (1d6+1/×3) or masterwork shortspear +6 ranged (1d6+1/×3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Spells
Special Qualities: Alternate form, children of the sea, DR 10/silver, magic sealskin, marine mammal empathy
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +7, Will +8
Abilities: Str 13, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 15
Skills: Concentration +12, Diplomacy +11, Handle Animal +11, Knowledge (arcane) +11), Listen +10, Spellcraft +13 (+15 with scrolls), Spot +10, Swim +9, Use Magic Device +13 (+15 with scrolls)
Feats: Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Weapon Finesse
Climate/Terrain: Cold aquatic
Organization: Solitary, shore party (2-8 and one leader of 1st-4th level), pack (2-8 plus 2-12 seals and one leader of 1st-4th level), family (5-10 plus 2-12 seals and 20% noncombatant young and 1-2 leaders of 1st-4th level and 0-1 subchiefs of 3rd-5th level) or band (10-40 plus 5-30 seals plus 20% noncombatants and 1 leader of 1st-4th level per 10 adults and 1-3 subchiefs of 3rd-5th level and 1 chief of 5th-7th level)
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually chaotic, often good
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +4

A tall and handsome half-elf, black-haired and gray-eyed

Seal Form
Large-Size Fey (Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 6d6+18 (21+39 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 20 ft., swim 80 ft.
Armor Class: 15 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +4 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+11
Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d8+6) or slam +6 melee (1d8+6)
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d8+6) or slam +6 melee (1d8+6)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Capsize boat, spells
Special Qualities: Alternate form, children of the sea, DR 10/silver, hold breath, magic sealskin, marine mammal empathy
Saves: Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Weapon Finesse
Abilities: Str 19, Dex 15, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 12, Cha 15
Skills: Concentration +12, Diplomacy +11, Handle Animal +11, Knowledge (arcane) +11), Listen +10, Spellcraft +13 (+15 with scrolls), Spot +10, Swim +12, Use Magic Device +13 (+15 with scrolls)
Feats: Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Weapon Finesse
Climate/Terrain: Cold aquatic
Organization: Solitary, shore party (2-8 and one leader of 1st-4th level), pack (2-8 plus 2-12 seals and one leader of 1st-4th level), family (5-10 plus 2-12 seals and 20% noncombatant young and 1-2 leaders of 1st-4th level and 0-1 subchiefs of 3rd-5th level) or band (10-40 plus 5-30 seals plus 20% noncombatants and 1 leader of 1st-4th level per 10 adults and 1-3 subchiefs of 3rd-5th level and 1 chief of 5th-7th level)
Challenge Rating: 6
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually chaotic, often good
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +4

An exceptionally big seal with gray eyes

Silkie are a race of shapechanging fey. According to legend, they are descended from Angus MacOdrum, a powerful fighter-wizard who united clans of humans, aquatic elves and selkies into a new tribe. The silkie are allied with aquatic elves and selkies, and will aid them against their foes – particularly sahuagin and sharks. All silkie are innate sorcerers, and some are spellcasters of great skill.

Like their selkie cousins, silkie can take on the form of a seal, but they can only change into seals if they don a magical seal skin. Silkie tradition obliges a silkie to become the servant to any individual who captures the silkie's seal skin, the silkie cannot lie to his or her master and must deliver any reasonable service or ransom for the return of their skin. Any dishonorable or treacherous act on the captor’s part frees the silkie from obligation.

Some silkie families and bands live in sea caves, but the majority of the race dwell in Land Under Wave, a group of wondrous cities at the bottom of the sea. Powerful magic provides these cities with a dome of breathable air, an artificial sun and perpetually pleasant weather, so fine fruit and vegetables grow all year round. The cities are hundreds of miles apart, but are interconnected by permanent teleportation circle spells that allow instant travel between them. Time runs strangely in Land Under Wave, causing living creatures to age five times slower than they would outside the cities' magic.

The silkies of Land Under Wave have a tradition of taking humanoid children to raise as servants. Some of these were abandoned infants left to die of exposure, but the more chaotic silkies are not adverse to stealing unattended children and leaving a changeling in their place. These humanoid servants are adopted by silkie families and treated kindly, but have to serve the silkie for 50 years before being freed (although many elect to remain in Land Under Wave after finishing their service). The magic of the silkie's domed cities means the servants only age a decade during those 50 years.

Silkie look just like particularly tall and finely built half elves in their humanoid form, a typical silkie is between 5½ and 6 feet tall and weighs about 160 pounds in humanoid form. In seal form, a silkie is from 7 to 8 feet long and weighs around 500 pounds.

Silkies speak Aquan, Common, Elven and Sylvan.

Combat
Silkies fight with spells or weapons when in humanoid form and with spells or teeth in seal form. They usually start combat by casting spells, then melee or withdraw as the circumstances warrant.

In half-elf form, silkies protect themselves with sharkskin leather armor and shields and fight with stone-bladed weapons, favoring spears, battle axes and warhammers. The stone from which their weapons are made is magically treated to be as tough as steel. In seal form silkies fight with spells or their teeth, they often try to capsize boats used by land-dwelling opponents.

Alternate Form (Su): A silkie can assume the form of a handsome half-elf or an unusually large seal. It must be wearing its Magic Skin (see below) to assume seal form.

Capsize Boat (Ex): Silkies in seal form can capsize boats up to 50 ft. in length. They must succeed at a Strength check against a DC of 15 plus the boat's length in feet to capsize it (e.g. a 30 ft. boat has a DC of 15+30 of 45 to capsize). Any unsecured occupants or cargo in a capsized boat ends up in the water. Groups of silkies use Aid Another actions on this Strength check to tip over boats too big for a single silkie.

Children of the Sea (Su): Once per day, a selkie can call forth a pod of 2d4+1 porpoises as a standard action. These marine mammal allies arrive in 2d6 rounds and aid the selkie for up to 1 hour.

Hold Breath (Ex): A silkie in seal form can hold its breath for a number of rounds equal to 8 times its Constitution score before it risks drowning.

Magic Sealskin (Su): All silkies possess an enchanted sealskin which allows them to assume seal form (see Alternate Form, above). Should another creature steal this skin, the silkie is unable to attack them unless the skin's thief attacks the silkie first (as per the affect of the sanctuary spell). Furthermore, the silkie has a -4 penalty to resist all Charisma-based skills and saves against enchantment spells performed by the skin-thief.

If a silkie's sealskin is destroyed, the silkie is able to create a new one by performing an hour-long ritual in the Land Below Waves with the assistance of a silkie with a magic sealskin.

Marine Mammal Empathy (Ex): A silkie can communicate with any marine mammal and has a +4 racial bonus on Charisma-based checks against seals and porpoises.

Spells: A silkie casts spells as a 6th level sorcerer.

Typical Spells Known (6/7/6/3, save DC 12 + spell level)
0---daze, detect magic, ghost sound, mending, prestidigitation, ray of frost, read magic;
1st---charm person, magic missile, shield, unseen servant
2nd---daze monster, gust of wind
3rd---lightning bolt

We could make both forms aquatic and amphibious. But that still doesn't help with the slaves I guess...

For summoning, we could just stick to the SRD porpoise (maybe quite a few of them), but I wouldn't be opposed to allowing them to summon an SRD orca or two instead. For the empathy, I'd definitely go with all marine mammals, though.

Are you totally opposed to SLAs? I'd like casting and SLAs.