Why is the Gish so popular with players?

[Undrave]

Speaking of 4e you could do a fairly resilient front line Wizard who uses Close Blast and Burst powers in 4e:

Go Human, +4 INT and +3 CON, pick up Staff of Defense as Master (+1 to AC and a once per encounter +CON to AC reaction), pick up Leather Armor proficiency as level 1 feat and then add Hafted Defense. This means your AC at level 1 is 10+4(INT)+2(Armor)+1(Staff of Defense)+1(Feat)= 18 AC. Basically Plate Armour. 26 HP and 9 surges.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Gishes has been in TTRPGs for decades.

They are not part of most TTRPGs as designers are so weird about seriously supporting any version of them.

I think this is overstated. They aren't part of the D&D-sphere, but lots of RPGs will let you mix spellcasting and combat skills without getting fussy about it. They may or may not too many melee augmenting spells, but that's pretty separate from them walling of spellcasting.

 

[James Gasik]

Not sure if it was the best design for what some people want, but the most fun I ever had with a hybrid caster was in PF1e when I played an Arcane Bloodrager. Just being able to rage and throw on a potent self-buff at the same time like Displacement or Haste was incredibly sweet, and while I didn't have many utility spells, I could use Wands and Scrolls of them as needed. Also being able to cast Shield for that sweet +4 AC was also quite nice.

 

[Minigiant]

I think this is overstated. They aren't part of the D&D-sphere, but lots of RPGs will let you mix spellcasting and combat skills without getting fussy about it. They may or may not too many melee augmenting spells, but that's pretty separate from them walling of spellcasting.

It's not that RPGs don't let you mix spellcasting and combat skills.

It's that many RPGs don't let you mix wizardry spellcasting and combat skills very well.

Usually to explain why all their wizards aren't in heavy armor swinging swords.

 

[Thomas Shey]

It's not that RPGs don't let you mix spellcasting and combat skills.

It's that many RPGs don't let you mix wizardry spellcasting and combat skills very well.

Usually to explain why all their wizards aren't in heavy armor swinging swords.

Again, I think that's an overgeneralization. The usual answer to your last question is that getting to the peak of their power requires too much time to also be a decent sword-slinger, but that doesn't mean you can't accept you'll not get to the peak and still mix and match. There's always going to be a price for that, but plenty of games don't make it prohibitive, just not overwhelmingly attractive.

 

[James Gasik]

Multiclassing. From the very beginning, a Gish has been all about multiclassing, as the term comes from Githyanki Fighter/Mages.

Now back then, multiclassing was pretty good- you got a slow start, but after awhile, you're about a level and a half behind a generalist. Sure, there wasn't any real way to blend your talents (beyond self-buffing, which is generally a bad use of action economy unless you actually have the opportunity to pre-buff), but you could be a slightly worse Wizard with more hit points and fighting ability superior to most other characters as a fallback. Or your first option, however you prefer.

Then for awhile, being a Fighter/Wizard kind of sucked until WotC bent over backwards to create Prestige Class after Prestige Class to let you actually achieve the end goal (Eldritch Knight, Spellsword, Bladesinger, Abjurant Champion, etc. etc.) and even tried their hand at a base class to do the same (the ill-fated Hexblade, and later the Duskblade. I'll count the Swordsage, even though they don't actually cast spells, simply because they allowed you to fulfill the fantasy of teleporting about and attacking with flaming swords very well).

We'll skip 4e because even if you were stuck with the Martial Power Source, you could pick up Rituals and easily pretend you were a magical fighter (without actually playing a class that was supposed to be one). And the hybrid rules let you go a step beyond, especially with hybrid Warlocks thanks to Eldritch Strike.

In 5e though, we run into this very strange situation where every class can be good at fighting and being a Fighter 2/Wizard 5 feels pretty good compared to a 7th level Eldritch Knight. Sure, they can throw a cantrip in with their attack action, but you got Action Surge Fireball a full 6 levels earlier!

Any dedicated "Gish" class is going to run into this same issue. Worse, there's always the possibility unless very carefully designed, multiclassing out of the Gish class into a full caster will eventually be far superior than remaining a Gish until high levels.

Now, if you don't play with multiclassing, that's not a problem, but a lot of people do, and you can't just throw your hands in the air and say "oh you let multiclassing in? not our fault you broke the game!". I mean, WotC tried that in 2014, and look where that got them, lol.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Gishes has been in TTRPGs for decades.

Like I said. The first toolkit systems started appearing in the mid 1980s.

And the 1Ed bard- a Ftr/Th/Druid- appeared in the 1970s

They are not part of most TTRPGs as designers are so weird about seriously supporting any version of them.

I never really looked at the percentages. I know I’ve played them in a number of RPGs, but make no claim as to the option’s ubiquity in the hobby as a whole.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

One of the reasons 3.5Ed is my favorite iteration of D&D is there are so many different ways to mix martial might with the mystic arts.

I’ve played an Arcane Paladin; an Indiana Jones-inspired multiclassed Diviner who could deliver magical attacks via his whip; a PHB sorcerer who used spells without ASF and certain feats to do magic while wearing scale mail & wielding a maul; a PHB fighter whose supernatural abilities all stemmed from his race, templates and feats; polearm masters with the ability to increase in size and many more.

 

[rgard]

Here's a take on Elric for 3.5: The Fiendblade by Ari Marmell. It's a fighter with summoning points to summon demons and the like. Also has sneak attack so you are having fun flanking the opponent once you beam in a demon or two. I've not played the class as a PC, but have been using it as an NPC in the campaign I'm currently running.