D&D (2024) What is your oppinion of 5.24 so far?

[tetrasodium]

Perhaps. I just generally find that most people understand how to "play nice with others" when joining a group of people to do a communal activity.


I was responding to YOUR use of "minmaxers" implying that there would be a problem once they watched the inevitable munchkin-videos. I understand the difference. Also - I don't think I was "throwing shade" (much) in that - again - I think that most of them can "play nice with others" and therefore won't be a problem.

While I agree with your use of "Munchkin" to differentiate, I'm not sure that either of us can assume that any given term has universal meaning that will be understood by everyone reading our posts.

minor point, I used "minmax"(no "er") in reference to a guide/video explaining how to do it not a player. watching a video or reading a guide that tells someone how to minmax their PC with an OP/Broken build does not make someone a minmaxer. That tiny investment of time is not capable of granting the munchkin with a shallow understanding of the rules the knowledge to quickly analyze the math of everything & be ready with a rapid fire machine gun rollout of action(s) when their turn comes around.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

Yes, I agree. We were talking about ones that would be a problem - which I assume would consist of those who want to make sure that they maximize their turn, but aren't good at making those decisions quickly and hem and haw about each part. What Tetra calls a munchkin, or what could be thought of as an inexperienced and/or low-skilled minmax wannabe, perhaps. Again, a theoretical problem that I don't think is going to occur often when we can simply talk to them and get them to behave (by "playing nice with others").

Ok yeah that makes sense and I think the new rules could make things slightly slower with new complexity being added for classes that previously had few/no combat options. Plenty of players can be excruciatingly indecisive now though too, it's really just one of those things that is best managed by talking to players about paying attention and being ready before their turn comes up. Or as a last resort start implementing timers, that sort of thing

 

[FitzTheRuke]

minor point, I used "minmax"(no "er") in reference to a guide/video explaining how to do it not a player. watching a video or reading a guide that tells someone how to minmax their PC with an OP/Broken build does not make someone a minmaxer. That tiny investment of time is not capable of granting the munchkin with a shallow understanding of the rules the knowledge to quickly analyze the math of everything & be ready with a rapid fire machine gun rollout of action(s) when their turn comes around.

That's fair. I was referring to what you are calling a Munchkin, more than a "proper" minmaxer, or a "proper" Power Gamer. The distinction is often muddled, but I would agree that we are only talking about a "problem" player and not trying to disparage a playstyle.

 

[jurrubin]

Being one of the min-max power players since the little white box in the 70's (we made our own multiclassing rules back then), I love the monk changes and the expanded use of feats (assuming the expanded use isn't optional). But that's it.

I've been disappointed by the majority of rule changes but only because I happen to run multiclass characters that have received all the negative effects to very key abilities by virtue of the classes they incorporate. For example, my top favorite character is a wood elf rogue 3 (swashbuckler)/paladin 10 (vengeance)/warlock 2 (hexblade) triple class which, under 5e, leverages the low level abilities of rogue/warlock with the higher level abilities of paladin.

Surprisingly effective at 15th level, it acts as backup support for a lot of party niches while not overwhelming the single class characters while also being the party equivalent of a Marine Force Recon unit for the group. But under the new rules, as a wood elf, he can no longer hide when only lightly obscured. As a paladin, he can no longer step up and hold the line with stop-gap rippling smites when things get critical. As a warlock, he can no longer get back emergency spell use for warlock/paladin spells after a short rest during long stressful runs.

The character isn't "gutted" by any means but the new rules take a unique and high-valued party member and dilutes it into something mediocre. And that is disappointing.

Ah, well. Time to adapt.

 

[mellored]

But under the new rules, as a wood elf, he can no longer hide when only lightly obscured. As a paladin, he can no longer step up and hold the line with stop-gap rippling smites when things get critical. As a warlock, he can no longer get back emergency spell use for warlock/paladin spells after a short rest during long stressful runs.

Paladin burst damage is nerfed but the can hold the line even better now with bonus action lay on hands.

Warlocks still get their spell slots back on a short rest. Plus get some 1 per long rest.