Ok what I read is 8, but 6 or 8 or even 2 it is still a lot cheaper than scrolls.
D&D (2024) Thief Rogue / True Strike
- Thread starter StitchedSpartan
- Start date
Ok what I read is 8, but 6 or 8 or even 2 it is still a lot cheaper than scrolls.
I can't meaningfully engage with your 8 (or even 2) if you don't share where that's from. I'm operating with limited information, and you need to please provide specifics.
You are not addressing the fixed attack bonus, which will keep you lagging behind from level 4 (and, again, am operating from limited information, = the screenshot I posted).
You are not addressing the fixed attack bonus, which will keep you lagging behind from level 4 (and, again, am operating from limited information, = the screenshot I posted).
You are using Truestrike for your attacks, so you ignore Dexterity and Strength and rely on your truestrike stat (probably Charisma) for all your attacks. Even without fast hands, this does substantially more damage than a Rogue using strength or dex due to the Cantrip scaling at level 5,11 and 17.
To be clear I am not saying this is OP or anything (it isn't), just it is a better way to use Fast Hands then scrolls are. As far as Truestrike goes, getting it on a Rogue provides a substantial damage boost (Thief or not) boost from level 5 on (assuming you prioritize your casting stat).
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pukunui
Legend
I would argue that the fixed attack bonus for the weapon would take the place of your own casting stat, even for something like true strike.
Also, given that an enspelled weapon appears to require attunement by a spellcaster, a 2024 thief rogue won't be able to use it since Use Magic Device no longer lets them ignore a magic item's requirements (and even if it did, they wouldn't be able to use it until level 13).
I think you might still be stuck using scrolls. That being said, I'm still not sure that would work prior to level 13 either, since its the 2024 version of Use Magic Device that lets a thief rogue use any spell scroll.
That is not what the description of Enspelled Weapon that I posted says.
The description I posted seems to me clear, assuming that's what's in the DMG.
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I don't think there will be class restrictions on it. Being a caster (if that is a restriction) is not the same as being a caster class. A Thief that knows the Truestrike Cantrip (or any spell) is a caster.
Oh I see what you are saying. On the spell cast from the ensplled weapon you would only have a +5 regardless of Dex, Strength or casting stat.
Good point.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
At this point it is a make believe thread not supported by the rules anyway.
It is purposefully misreading of several things.
MarkB
Legend
Even if you make two of them, that's still cheaper long-term. You could use up some charges on one earlier in the adventuring day, then switch attunement to the other during a short rest.
As for the attack bonus, true strike is a bit of an odd case, in that it's not a spell attack. It allows you to make a weapon attack, and as such it's not certain that the restriction on attack bonus would apply.
Eric Olson1
Explorer
Seeing the wording of the “enspelled” weapons confirms my fears that players will not be able to craft weapons that have abilities that can be used with fast hands.
These items don’t have powers that activate upon usage, they only enable the user to meet the requirements needed to cast a spell.
It becomes clean that some items are “activated effect” and some items are “enspelled”. Fast hands only works with “activated effect” items, not “enspelled”. Scrolls are obviously “enspelled”.
For balance, I’m not worried about the Thief, they probably need this function to be balanced vs the other sub-classes.
This is whole discussion is about: could a spell caster take 3 levels of Rogue/Thief to reliably cast any two leveled spells every round? I do not believe it written that way or intended to be that way.
I do believe that Fast Hands is intended to balance this sub-class vs the others. I believe it is the DMs responsibility to keep it balanced by providing magic items that DO work. (non-enspelled items in the DMG or modeled after the enspelled items in the DMG). I would give a Thief a ‘James Bond’ flavor by having some “Q”-mage provide magical toys that make the character effective. We see here that items created by players are not going to work this way, it is something for the DM to create and provide (and balance). For example, a wand where you expend a charge to cause a fireball to shoot out (instead of just allowing you to cast a fireball spell).
Note: The ‘attack bonus’ for enspelled items would not apply to true strike, since those are determined by the attack action. The spell does not scale by level like other spells (with DC/AB going up). It does scale with extra damage at each tier. It would be reasonable to rule that an item could be created to cast a lower level spell at a higher level. True Strike at “level 3” would do the 1d6 of extra damage.
These items don’t have powers that activate upon usage, they only enable the user to meet the requirements needed to cast a spell.
It becomes clean that some items are “activated effect” and some items are “enspelled”. Fast hands only works with “activated effect” items, not “enspelled”. Scrolls are obviously “enspelled”.
For balance, I’m not worried about the Thief, they probably need this function to be balanced vs the other sub-classes.
This is whole discussion is about: could a spell caster take 3 levels of Rogue/Thief to reliably cast any two leveled spells every round? I do not believe it written that way or intended to be that way.
I do believe that Fast Hands is intended to balance this sub-class vs the others. I believe it is the DMs responsibility to keep it balanced by providing magic items that DO work. (non-enspelled items in the DMG or modeled after the enspelled items in the DMG). I would give a Thief a ‘James Bond’ flavor by having some “Q”-mage provide magical toys that make the character effective. We see here that items created by players are not going to work this way, it is something for the DM to create and provide (and balance). For example, a wand where you expend a charge to cause a fireball to shoot out (instead of just allowing you to cast a fireball spell).
Note: The ‘attack bonus’ for enspelled items would not apply to true strike, since those are determined by the attack action. The spell does not scale by level like other spells (with DC/AB going up). It does scale with extra damage at each tier. It would be reasonable to rule that an item could be created to cast a lower level spell at a higher level. True Strike at “level 3” would do the 1d6 of extra damage.
