D&D (2024) Thief Rogue / True Strike

[ECMO3]

Then we disagree. I have nothing more to add other than that it can be a powerful exploit as I explained here.

This link is what I quoted and pointed out that it is not as powerful as a Sorcerer using a scroll and Quicken spell.

To accomplish this, comparing a Sorcerer to a Thief. The Thief uses more actions to pull it off every turn (2 for sorc vs 3 for Thief) has far fewer spell slots available, uses less resources and is far less effective on a multiclass optimized around this "exploit".

I think you won't talk about it because this "exploit" is rather weak compared to what a Sorcerer can do with scrolls and Quicken spell.

 

[Oofta]

This link is what I quoted and pointed out that it is not as powerful as a Sorcerer using a scroll and Quicken spell.

To accomplish this, comparing a Sorcerer to a Thief. The Thief uses more actions to pull it off every turn (2 for sorc vs 3 for Thief) has far fewer spell slots available, uses less resources and is far less effective on a multiclass optimized around this "exploit".

I think you won't talk about it because this "exploit" is rather weak compared to what a Sorcerer can do with scrolls and Quicken spell.

Take 3 levels of rogue then multiclass into wizard. Then argue that since you aren't using a spell slot when using a scroll that you can cast whatever other spell you want. It's an exploit.

I've given my response to your question, we simply disagree and there's nothing else to add. Why keep asking the same question when you know what the answer will be?

 

[ECMO3]

Take 3 levels of rogue then multiclass into wizard. Then argue that since you aren't using a spell slot when using a scroll that you can cast whatever other spell you want. It's an exploit.

And it is objectively is weak compared to what a Sorcerer can do.

A Sorcerer can do the same thing with Quicken spell! Cast a spell from a scroll then Quicken "whatever spell you want" and they can do it with higher level spells than the Thief-Wizard multiclass can manage.

 

[Oofta]

And it is objectively is weak compared to what a Sorcerer can do.

A Sorcerer can do the same thing with Quicken spell! Cast a spell from a scroll then Quicken "whatever spell you want" and they can do it with higher level spells than the Thief-Wizard multiclass can manage.

A sorcerer can still only cast 1 spell higher than a cantrip in a turn and they are limited by the number of sorcery points they have.

I'm not all that concerned about the abuse since I wouldn't rule that you can cast a spell from a scroll as a bonus action anyway.

 

[abirdcall]

A sorcerer can still only cast 1 spell higher than a cantrip in a turn and they are limited by the number of sorcery points they have.

I'm not all that concerned about the abuse since I wouldn't rule that you can cast a spell from a scroll as a bonus action anyway.

I disagree with you here.

Quickened spell can be used with other magic items that augment spells.

It still has the stipulation of only being able to cast 1 level 1+ spell that turn.

 

[ECMO3]

A sorcerer can still only cast 1 spell higher than a cantrip in a turn and they are limited by the number of sorcery points they have.

The number of Sorcery is generally going to be less of a limit than the number of scrolls, and if we are playing with multiclasses, a Warlock Multiclass effectively means Sorcery points are going to be near unlimited.

 

[ECMO3]

By utilizing True Strike, Thief Rogues have very reliable double sneak attack damage each round, though I don’t think it is game breaking by any means. This would require a level dip into wizard so you can use the scroll (Rogue 3/Wizard 1 minimum) but I think most thieves will end up doing this anyways to use Spell Scrolls earlier than level 13.

Bonus Action: True Strike cast via Spell Scroll for sneak attack using Fast Hands

Hold Your Action: Make the trigger a normal True Strike that activates after your turn or something else reliable for another sneak attack

Having an owl from Find Familiar which you would have access to also makes advantage a bit easier to obtain.

My only question is about how crossbow loading interacts in this scenario because I’m not sure an equivalent has existed so easily before. Is it possible to not run into issues with Loading if you are attacking with an Action and Bonus Action?

There is a better way to do this. From what I have read on the new DMG it takes 5 days and 50 gold to craft an enspelled weapon with a Cantrip.

This gives the Rogue a magic weapon with the spell (in this case Truestrike). This erases all doubts you use fast Hands to activate the spell and then you use your action to ready another attack (actually even better ready cast Truestrike again off turn).

This is far cheaper than scrolls, takes less time and eliminates any debate about using fast hands.

 

[Kobold Stew]

There is a better way to do this. From what I have read on the new DMG it takes 5 days and 50 gold to craft an enspelled weapon with a Cantrip.

This gives the Rogue a magic weapon with the spell (in this case Truestrike). This erases all doubts you use fast Hands to activate the spell and then you use your action to ready another attack (actually even better ready cast Truestrike again off turn).

This is far cheaper than scrolls, takes less time and eliminates any debate about using fast hands.

Based on what we've seen (I think), an enspelled weapons will have limited charges (max. 6/long rest), and it has a fixed attack bonus. Even if it solves ambiguity of Fast hands (assuming there is any), but it's not obviously "better" or viable long term.

 

[ECMO3]

Based on what we've seen (I think), an enspelled weapons will have limited charges (max. 6/long rest), and it has a fixed attack bonus. Even if it solves ambiguity of Fast hands (assuming there is any), but it's not obviously "better" or viable long term.

Yes 8 per long rest, but that is 8 every single day for a one time 50gp outlay. That is a crapload cheaper than the scroll idea, which would cost 240gp for each day you cast 8 Cantrips.

If you need more than 8 make two of them.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Yes 8 per long rest, but that is 8 every single day for 50gp and 5 days vs 50gp (?) per scroll. If you need more than that make 2 or 3 of them.

You have different info than I do.