D&D (2024) Thief Rogue / True Strike

[pukunui]

Oh you are missing the earlier discussion from the thread, this is about getting sneak attack twice a turn, once with a bonus action with Fast Hands using a scroll (which could not be used until higher level) and once with an action.

You need to have a magic item with Truestrike for the Fast Hands part of it.

Yeah, I've read the whole thead. I don't agree with your interpretation. I think Fast Hands is intended to be limited to magic items that would normally be "turned on" (e.g. activated) with a Magic action. Not ones that allow you to cast a spell from them. Your stated goal smacks of munchkinism to me.

 

[ECMO3]

Yeah, I've read the whole thead. I don't agree with your interpretation. I think Fast Hands is intended to be limited to magic items that would normally be "turned on" (e.g. activated) with a Magic action. Not ones that allow you to cast a spell from them. Your stated goal smacks of munchkinism to me.

It is not my goal. It is just the idea of the OP in the thread. I doubt I will ever even play a Thief, because this is not even particularly powerful and does not seem very fun.

FWIW my first 2024 Rogue is a Arcane Trickster with 1 level of Paladin and 2 levels of Warlock (with Truestrike-Agonizing Blast). I am rocking sneak attack, double Charisma damage, Cantrip Scaling damage and Divine Smite on one huge action a turn.

That said, I think castring a spell from a scroll is "activating" it and it certainly is the same as "using" it and I think it is exactly what is intended.

Even the idea of a 3-level Thief dip to get leveled spell scrolls on a character that is otherwise a full caster does not even scratch the surface as OP compared to the other things available in 2024. If you want to be worried about Rogue things that can break the game on a multiclass you should be looking at Cunning Action Dash with Conjure Woodland Beings or Yolanda's Presenence and Wildshape or Find Familiar. Those things are going to be far more powerful due to the high movement and emanation riles than putting out a second spell on your turn when you can only concentrate on one spell at a time anyway.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And he seems to be unable to read properly...

Mod Note:

And you seem to be unable to be civil properly.

 

[OptionalRule]

By utilizing True Strike, Thief Rogues have very reliable double sneak attack damage each round, though I don’t think it is game breaking by any means. This would require a level dip into wizard so you can use the scroll (Rogue 3/Wizard 1 minimum) but I think most thieves will end up doing this anyways to use Spell Scrolls earlier than level 13.

Bonus Action: True Strike cast via Spell Scroll for sneak attack using Fast Hands

Hold Your Action: Make the trigger a normal True Strike that activates after your turn or something else reliable for another sneak attack

Having an owl from Find Familiar which you would have access to also makes advantage a bit easier to obtain.

My only question is about how crossbow loading interacts in this scenario because I’m not sure an equivalent has existed so easily before. Is it possible to not run into issues with Loading if you are attacking with an Action and Bonus Action?

I am missing the mechanics that make any difference here.

True Strike in 2024 just lets you use your casting state for to hit and damage. Which I don't see how Intelligence would be better than Dex for a Rogue. The rogue still only gets to use Sneak attack once per turn. Sure it lets them make the extra attack but given they have to burn a scroll to do it in your scenario, off hand weapons seem a better choice.

What am I missing?

 

[pukunui]

That said, I think castring a spell from a scroll is "activating" it and it certainly is the same as "using" it and I think it is exactly what is intended.

One of the reasons I disagree is because spell scrolls are specifically get a whole section to themselves in the 2024 Thief's level 13 Use Magic Device feature.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

No he didn't and even pointed that out in the beginning of the video; that he is not allowed to show text from the DMG.

There still is nothing in the text he reproduced that indicates that you can now cast 24 hour spells as a single action.
There is also nothing that says using staffs or scrolls need a magic action to activate, which the thief ability specifically refers to.

Enspelled weapons just allow you to cast spells, as do scrolls.

 

[MarkB]

One of the reasons I disagree is because spell scrolls are specifically get a whole section to themselves in the 2024 Thief's level 13 Use Magic Device feature.

Heh, that's one of the reasons I don't disagree. The level 13 feature does nothing to interfere with Fast Hands, and is an indication that they had scroll use in mind for this subclass.

 

[ECMO3]

I am missing the mechanics that make any difference here.

True Strike in 2024 just lets you use your casting state for to hit and damage. Which I don't see how Intelligence would be better than Dex for a Rogue. The rogue still only gets to use Sneak attack once per turn. Sure it lets them make the extra attack but given they have to burn a scroll to do it in your scenario, off hand weapons seem a better choice.

What am I missing?

Ok two things.

First if you are doing this your casting stat will always be better than your dexterity, that pretty much goes without saying.

Second the limit on sneak attack is once per turn not once per round. You use the bonus action to use the scroll and get a sneak attack on your turn and then if you hit take the ready action to attack agaoin off turn. So your second Truestrike comes on someone else's turn meaning you can use sneak attack again.

If you miss with the scroll truestrike you use your action to do it again on your turn (saving your reaction).

 

[ECMO3]

There still is nothing in the text he reproduced that indicates that you can now cast 24 hour spells as a single action.
There is also nothing that says using staffs or scrolls need a magic action to activate, which the thief ability specifically refers to.

Enspelled weapons just allow you to cast spells, as do scrolls.

Like I said, I am believing the guy who actually has a copy of the DMG.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Like I said, I am believing the guy who actually has a copy of the DMG.

Yes. Belief what you want. Does not make it correct.

Why the wording "that requires that action" if it works on all magic items.

Why does no enspelled item say anything about an action?

How does Pact tactics come to theor conclusion that every enspelled weapon works like divine intervention (if we assume DI really takes only a magic action...).