The Willingness to Embrace Joy in Things.

[Scribe]

What I see as the leading issues are anxiety, stress and, well, forms of PTSD, possibly OCD as well but perhaps mainly because it's so good at leading to anxiety. This is part of why I do feel some real caution is warranted with the "just let it go!" model of embracing joy - because a lot of people absolutely want to do that, but have been/are being so harried by life and stuff that they actually DO need to worry about, like are they going to make rent, is their kid or pet sick, and so on. I think when you're enjoying basic financial stability (which doesn't necessarily mean wealth, but stability, and not having to worry about income or costs much, because they're basically under control), when people in your life are healthy, when you aren't dealing with abusive people in your life (who are sometimes unavoidable because they're at work or whatever), when you don't have to deal with significant, recurrent anxiety and stress, it's just a lot easier to "embrace joy".

This helped me as well. Trying to frame the "why" a person keeps going after the same bait, why they act the way they do, can really help me to just let it go on their behalf. "Ah X has entered the chat, well we know where this is going, I'm out."

It enables me to make the appropriate call, because not everyone else can.

 

[Reynard]

This was going to be an edit but it go long so this is a follow-up to my above post:

I would also say ADHD can be a genuine asset to embracing joy. Like, I forget dumb/bad/annoying things pretty easily compared to most people!

And on the flipside, looking at friends and family, it's very clear to me that the biggest bar to "embracing joy" isn't cynicism or real reluctance, let alone an enjoyment of tearing thing apart. At all. I dunno if cynicism is even top 10. What I see as the leading issues are anxiety, stress and, well, forms of PTSD, possibly OCD as well but perhaps mainly because it's so good at leading to anxiety. This is part of why I do feel some real caution is warranted with the "just let it go!" model of embracing joy - because a lot of people absolutely want to do that, but have been/are being so harried by life and stuff that they actually DO need to worry about, like are they going to make rent, is their kid or pet sick, and so on. I think when you're enjoying basic financial stability (which doesn't necessarily mean wealth, but stability, and not having to worry about income or costs much, because they're basically under control), when people in your life are healthy, when you aren't dealing with abusive people in your life (who are sometimes unavoidable because they're at work or whatever), when you don't have to deal with significant, recurrent anxiety and stress, it's just a lot easier to "embrace joy".

Like, people say money can't buy happiness - but it's a half truth. It's more like, you can take a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. But if he's by water, at least he could drink. And a lot of people aren't really "by water" in this context! If they were, they would drink! But equally some people are wealthy, healthy, safe and just have a lot of difficulty embracing joy - including some friends, and in my experience that tends to revolve around them forcing themselves to do stuff they just don't enjoy because of rules or limits they enforce upon themselves, rules that may or may not benefit them in various ways, but sure don't help with joy. I could detail a lot of examples, but I feel like there's just so much more to this than merely willing it to happen for so many people.

Again, ADHD means this is mostly not the problem I deal with, because I am very good at forgetting my troubles even when I totally should not! Masterful at it even! But I feel like for most people, that's not an easy thing, and most people who seem unable to take joy in stuff, it's because things are hard for them, or they've been messed up by stuff, not because they're failing to "embrace joy". And even where that is the main thing, often it's difficult-to-escape societal or relationship that's causing that.

Sorry I'll stop going on sophomorically now lol.

My issue with this follow up is that it redirects the conversation away from "don't let other people's views of things get you down" and suggests that what I was saying is "stop whining and enjoy life no matter your troubles!" which I wasn't.

I would argue, though, that finding ways to embrace joy when life gets you down is an important and healthy skill to develop.

 

[bloodtide]

I think a problem people have is that they find joy on something, but then quickly dump it as they feel they "must" find "new joy" in something else....for some reason.

If you like some small section of an IP, then just let that bring you joy. Sure they will make 100 of bad stuff of the IP....but just ignore it: you have your Point of Joy.

This is a lesson you learn quick as a kid if you read comics. As a kid you will find comics you like with a good writer(and art if you care about that). And in Ye Old Days, writers tended to stay on comics for years. But even then they moved on. Sometimes the new writer was good or ok......but very often they were bad. You would still like the character, but you could never read the new scribbles. So you stop buying it, and just reread the old ones you have.

The same is true for TV shows....like how many shows 'jump' into a bad season or reboot or whatever. And this has gone on forever. Battlestar Glatacia was a good show...and then, somehow, they made Glatacia 1980. The Real Ghostbusters was great, until it became The Slimer Show. Or the 80's Buck Rogers 2nd season. And more modern shows like Lost, Game of Thrones or Doctor Who.

And even if you are a big fan, you will never like every show or movie in an IP. If your a OS Star Trek fan, how much do you like Spock's Brain? If your a TNG Star Trek fan, is Shades of Gray your favorite? If your a Bond fan, have you liked every Bond movie? Every Godzila movie?

So just find your Point of Joy and stick with it.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

My issue with this follow up is that it redirects the conversation away from "don't let other people's views of things get you down" and suggests that what I was saying is "stop whining and enjoy life no matter your troubles!" which I wasn't.

I guess for me "other people's views of things" is virtually never the reason I'm "not embracing joy", and like, your original posts seem to really only focus on that and cynicism in general as possible reasons for people "not embracing joy", when personally, just going on my own experience of life, and what I see in friends/family, I'd say those were not top 10 "failure to embrace joy issues" for most people I know.

So if the discussion is about embracing joy in one's life and the barriers to it in general, I think it's important to look at all the issues, not just some of them.

But that doesn't mean the ones you list don't happen. For example, I do see "other people's views of things" impacting for example, my father, who like, self-image-wise, feels he can't enjoy certain things basically because it would either be embarrassing to him if his snobby friends found out, or because it would damage his own self-image as this sort of quite... I dunno what the word is quite... erudite... not quite the right word... person. But the reason that is probably one of the #1 issues for him is that the more common barriers are out of the way, that really genuinely, if he stopped thinking/caring so much about what other people might think, he'd be better off - and he has a bit, but he's still got some hang-ups there.

I would argue, though, that finding ways to embrace joy when life gets you down is an important and healthy skill to develop.

Sure, but my point is that's so much more easily said than done for most people, especially those who are in difficult life situations, and/or suffering from anxiety. Really like, my own ADHD I used to think I would cure if I could - I'd be a lot richer and in a better position if I didn't have it - but would I be happier? I think actually it makes it so much easier for me "embrace joy" at times when a lot of bad stuff is happening that make it easier for me to deal with stuff than people around me. It is a skill to some extent, yeah, and I think a lot of the time, people have either lead a life which wasn't difficult until it suddenly was, and haven't developed it, or have been under such constant stress for so long that even if they've had it, it's atrophied.

Also, I don't think "life gets you down" and "genuinely suffering from real-cause problems, which naturally lead to stress/anxiety" are quite exactly the same.

 

[Micah Sweet]

So, you don't choose joy. Got it.

What you appear to be asking for is to ignore any negative feelings you have about something with which you have a complex relationship, no matter your reasons, and...just be happy instead?

 

[Reynard]

What you appear to be asking for is to ignore any negative feelings you have about something with which you have a complex relationship, no matter your reasons, and...just be happy instead?

Maybe reread the OP.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's not about fandom negativity except insofar as one shouldn't let other peoples' constant critiques of material affect your feelings about it.


The point about Pirates was that my son -- who loved that ride as a kid -- was grumpy because we were getting on a "kids' ride." Despite that complaint, there is still joy to be found in Pirates for him, even if it is just nostalgia.

And look, I get it, for some people tearing apart some media or game IS the way they find joy in it. Good for them. But to me focusing on the flaws is the opposite of finding joy. Especially if those flaws just boil down to that "they" changed something.

Change is not inherently a good thing (or a bad thing, or a neutral thing). We all make our decisions about it our feeling are equally valid.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

So just find your Point of Joy and stick with it.

I think this is true - it's better to stick with something you actually like than to try and force yourself to like something you don't.

No finer example of this than the modern Star Wars fandom, especially some Gen Xers. Like, for me, Star Wars has been up and down, but it's been up and down - there's always been stuff I've liked and stuff I haven't. Whereas for a significant proportion of Gen X SW fans, it seems like really they only actually liked maybe the OT, some of the old EU, maybe Clone Wars (but not really the PT)/Rebels (maybe!), maybe TFA and/or Rogue One, maybe Andor or some of Mando, but not really enjoying or even hating most of it, yet they keep forcing themselves to watch more and more and more of it, hating (it seems) every moment. I get that maybe there is just enough annoying/awful about the modern stuff that they can't overlook it despite attempting to "choose joy" (I mean, a lot of TROS was on that level for me, or Boba Fett), but at a certain point, maybe just go "Let's stick with what I know I like!"?

Likewise with Trek, I realized pretty early on that just because I didn't like VOY, it didn't somehow make DS9 worse, and also, I could just not watch or think about VOY!

I think there's a real problem in "fandom" where people like some shows from an IP feel they need to consume like, all of an IP's "content" (ugh), or they're "not a real fan" or something. When in fact you're so much better off just enjoying the bits you enjoy! I didn't watch Discovery Season 5 and nobody can make me! Hahaha! I can re-watch DS9 whenever I want! (um, at least currently - it sucks when you can't get a show or book or record or whatever you like because it's OOP and/or otherwise inaccessible).

 

[MarkB]

I think a problem people have is that they find joy on something, but then quickly dump it as they feel they "must" find "new joy" in something else....for some reason.

If you like some small section of an IP, then just let that bring you joy. Sure they will make 100 of bad stuff of the IP....but just ignore it: you have your Point of Joy.

This is a lesson you learn quick as a kid if you read comics. As a kid you will find comics you like with a good writer(and art if you care about that). And in Ye Old Days, writers tended to stay on comics for years. But even then they moved on. Sometimes the new writer was good or ok......but very often they were bad. You would still like the character, but you could never read the new scribbles. So you stop buying it, and just reread the old ones you have.

The same is true for TV shows....like how many shows 'jump' into a bad season or reboot or whatever. And this has gone on forever. Battlestar Glatacia was a good show...and then, somehow, they made Glatacia 1980. The Real Ghostbusters was great, until it became The Slimer Show. Or the 80's Buck Rogers 2nd season. And more modern shows like Lost, Game of Thrones or Doctor Who.

And even if you are a big fan, you will never like every show or movie in an IP. If your a OS Star Trek fan, how much do you like Spock's Brain? If your a TNG Star Trek fan, is Shades of Gray your favorite? If your a Bond fan, have you liked every Bond movie? Every Godzila movie?

So just find your Point of Joy and stick with it.

There's definitely some truth there. It's why I wasn't particularly bothered that The Acolyte didn't turn out so well - it wasn't a show I had any particular investment in or expectation of in the first place. There are still plenty of existing Star Wars shows and movies that I can enjoy.

 

[Umbran]

And on the flipside, looking at friends and family, it's very clear to me that the biggest bar to "embracing joy" isn't cynicism or real reluctance, let alone an enjoyment of tearing thing apart. At all. I dunno if cynicism is even top 10. What I see as the leading issues are anxiety, stress and, well, forms of PTSD, possibly OCD as well but perhaps mainly because it's so good at leading to anxiety.

But that's not really what the OP is talking about.

What you are talking about isn't specific to particular mental health diagnoses, so we can broaden the point a bit: If your life is full of stressors and difficulties such that you cannot easily be happy, that's a real problem. But it isn't a problem with RPGs, or the fandom around them.

Projecting your other stresses onto RPGs and the other fans probably isn't a constructive coping strategy.