Converting Monsters from Polyhedron Magazine

[Cleon]

I'd prefer to just leave it for the 4th-level amazons to take. They'll still qualify for it faster than any other non-single classed fighters, which is benefit enough methinks.

Good idea!

I'm seeing double!

Anyhow, I'm still fancying Weapon Specialisation as a special ability bonus feat, since the original has it listed as a "special attack".

Anyone else care to chip in an opinion?

 

[freyar]

It's not clear from the original stat block what "specialization" means. Unless there's some standard meaning in 2e, I'd think it might mean the ability to handle horses or boats, which could be a skill bonus. I'm a bit undecided on Weapon Spec.

The reason I want the Spot bonus or Imp Init is that they aren't surprised, and surprise is handled through Spot checks and initiative. I know you're trying to do that with Uncanny Dodge, but that's not quite the same thing (for example, it works against invisible critters). I'm open to having both, but I definitely want to have something that keeps them from being surprised.

 

[Cleon]

It's not clear from the original stat block what "specialization" means. Unless there's some standard meaning in 2e, I'd think it might mean the ability to handle horses or boats, which could be a skill bonus. I'm a bit undecided on Weapon Spec.

It's listed as a special attack, so it's unlikely to mean they're good at boating.

Fighters in post-Unearthed Arcana AD&D could get Weapon Specialisation, which not only have them to hit and damage boosts but increased their number of attacks.

A high level fighter could get Double Specialisation, for even better combat boosts.

I'll note that the Amazon has her No. of Attacks listed as 2. That's higher than a standard 4th level fighter, so might indicate Weapon Specialisation.

Although I'm not against the idea of making them buy Specialisation with one of their feats as normal.

The reason I want the Spot bonus or Imp Init is that they aren't surprised, and surprise is handled through Spot checks and initiative. I know you're trying to do that with Uncanny Dodge, but that's not quite the same thing (for example, it works against invisible critters). I'm open to having both, but I definitely want to have something that keeps them from being surprised.

I'd much rather give them an ability that prevents them being flat-footed, hence preventing penalties for being surprises. It seems to fit the original description better than making them eagle-eyed or viper-quick.

We could rework it so the "Not-So Uncanny Dodge" doesn't work against creatures the Amazon is incapable of sensing.

 

[freyar]

Weapon Specialization the feat doesn't grant extra attacks or an attack bonus, though, just a damage bonus. From what you're saying, we could just as easily make it Weapon Focus or even some sort of quickness/alacrity ability.

As for Uncanny Dodge vs an init or Spot bonus, there's really nothing in the flavor/description either way. Actually, I'd say that the disclaimer about invisibility makes it more likely that it should be related to Spot, which is how we usually deal with monsters that don't surprise easily. Like I say, I'm fine with Uncanny Dodge, too. But I also really don't want to make up an ever-so-slightly different version of Uncanny Dodge either.

 

[Shade]

Weapon Specialization the feat doesn't grant extra attacks or an attack bonus, though, just a damage bonus. From what you're saying, we could just as easily make it Weapon Focus or even some sort of quickness/alacrity ability.

I'd most prefer just letting them qualify for it easier, but could accept Weapon Focus as a bonus feat easier. I'm not fond of alacrity for 'em.

As for Uncanny Dodge vs an init or Spot bonus, there's really nothing in the flavor/description either way. Actually, I'd say that the disclaimer about invisibility makes it more likely that it should be related to Spot, which is how we usually deal with monsters that don't surprise easily. Like I say, I'm fine with Uncanny Dodge, too. But I also really don't want to make up an ever-so-slightly different version of Uncanny Dodge either.

Ditto here. I'm fine with uncanny dodge and/or Spot + Improved Initiative, but don't want to create a new ability.

 

[freyar]

I'd prefer Weapon Focus as a bonus feat. It makes sense to me. We can list the choice of weapons.

Let's see if Uncanny Dodge and a +4 Spot bonus will go over ok with Cleon.

 

[Cleon]

Weapon Specialization the feat doesn't grant extra attacks or an attack bonus, though, just a damage bonus. From what you're saying, we could just as easily make it Weapon Focus or even some sort of quickness/alacrity ability.

It did in AD&D.

As for Uncanny Dodge vs an init or Spot bonus, there's really nothing in the flavor/description either way. Actually, I'd say that the disclaimer about invisibility makes it more likely that it should be related to Spot, which is how we usually deal with monsters that don't surprise easily. Like I say, I'm fine with Uncanny Dodge, too. But I also really don't want to make up an ever-so-slightly different version of Uncanny Dodge either.

I'd prefer straight Uncanny Dodge over Improved Init + Spot bonus.

The impression I get is amazons are never caught unprepared when surprise attacked, not that they're any more likely to spot such attacks.

I'd prefer Weapon Focus as a bonus feat. It makes sense to me. We can list the choice of weapons.

Let's see if Uncanny Dodge and a +4 Spot bonus will go over ok with Cleon.

Well I could compromise with that, she can always use the Weapon Focus as the prereq for Weapon Specialization.

Updating the Working Draft.

I would still have preferred something a bit meatier, such as:

Martial Training (Ex): Amazons are talented fighters. An amazon with levels in humanoid gains a base attack bonus equal to her humanoid Hit Dice. An amazon qualifies for feats as if she were a fighter of a level equal to her Base Attack Bonus. Amazons are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with medium armor, light armor and all shields (including tower shields). An amazon gains Improved Unarmed Strike and Weapon Focus (in 1 weapon) as bonus feats, if she has a base attack bonus of +4 or higher she also gains Weapon Specialization (in the same weapon as her Weapon Focus) as a bonus feat.

 

[freyar]

Well, my point was that the AD&D weapon spec is more than the feat, but you weren't arguing for all the extra abilities.

I'm not sure where you get the impression that it's about being prepared rather than unsurprised, since it says they aren't surprised except by invisible critters. But I'm glad we could make that compromise.

I think the problem with the meatier version is that it's just too good. Or at least that's what I'm hearing Shade say.

 

[Shade]

I think the problem with the meatier version is that it's just too good. Or at least that's what I'm hearing Shade say.

Agreed. Too much meat.

 

[Cleon]

Agreed. Too much meat.

Well those amazons won't get to grow to be 7 feet tall if they don't get plenty of protein in their diet, you know.

So, are you OK with the current Working Draft version with Weapon Focus by itself?