Pathfinder 1E Why Didn't Paizo Do their Own "Dragon/Dungeon?"

[Scribble]

I mean, I know their license expired for the official Dungeon and Dragon magazines, but they're a publishing company...

So why didn't they just start up their own magazine(s) offering the same type of content? After all, it would seem there are a few people loudly wishing they were still in charge of the magazine.

 

[Vascant]

If I remember some of the comments being made I think there was a clause where they could not start up a new magazine until a certain period of time had elapsed (very common in this sort of thing, I had to sign them all the time in software development).

After this period of time elapsed, would come the question.. "Is it cost effective?". I don't think we will ever know the answer to this and would be a huge gamble to take on being an industry magazine without the push of the biggest company in the industry. So they went the best route in their minds.

 

[Cabled]

I would imagine mostly because the current/expired agreement with WotC had some language in it about not doing that for some period of time when the liscense did expire.

Also, as has been said in the past, where goes D&D follows the industry. Like it or not, I feel it holds a large kernel of truth. Doing what you propose might sour a working relationship that so far seems to be very good between Paizo and WotC, which they may not want to do, and rightly so.

 

[EricNoah]

I got the impression, with their heavy emphasis that the new adventure path stuff was a monthly BOOK subscription (definitely not a MAGAZINE), that perhaps they have been asked to not make a competing magazine? However, I could well be misinformed.

 

[WayneLigon]

From Paizo's CEO letter: [Empahsis mine]

Many people have asked why Paizo doesn't just create new print magazines that would be just like Dragon and Dungeon, but without the official D&D content. Well, if there were a viable way for us to transition to a new magazine format, we might have. However, you can't just create a new magazine and have it automatically appear in all of the places that carried Dragon and Dungeon. Hobby store managers and gamers might understand the value of a new magazine, but what about bookstore managers, military suppliers, major magazine distributors, or advertisers? You've basically got to start over from scratch with them, and in many cases that means you have to buy your way in. When we started Paizo five years ago, Dragon and Dungeon magazines had a combined 40 years of inertia behind them, but in today's marketplace, starting a new magazine on that scale would take more than a million dollars.

Besides the money issue, a significant reason that Dungeon and Dragon sold the levels they did after a certain amount of time was that they were named 'Dungeon' and 'Dragon'; brand-recognition at work again.

Now, I seem to remember something about their licence from WoTC rendering them unable to produce a magazine for a certain amount of time [As I understand things such agreements are generally pretty common for license holders, so that they don't use your product to train themselves to become your replacement -- in my job, I operate under a vaguely similar restriction] even if they had the resources (and this is why Pathfinder has the look and feel of an adventure supplement instead of a magazine-like feel), but I can't find corroboration so that should be filed under 'speculation'.

 

[Scribble]

I can understand the thought that they might have a clause in the contract... But the idea of the magazine being too costly... Well yeah if they want to instantly be as big as Dragon and Dungeon were sure...

But they said Gamers and Game stores would understand the value, and isn't that pretty much where their Pathfinder stuff is being sold now anyway? (is it in Borders and Such? And even so, couldn't they use the same strings to get their new monthly rules/adventure magazines into those stores that they use to get pathfinder in there?)

I'm not saying I think their business strategy is poor or anything... Just confused by it (as I don't have all the details.)

 

[BadMojo]

I got the impression, with their heavy emphasis that the new adventure path stuff was a monthly BOOK subscription (definitely not a MAGAZINE).

Yeah. Purely speculation, but it was a "doth protest too much" scenario when Pathfinder was first announced. I can't even recall how many times that was explicitly stated. It seemed very odd at the time.

 

[Maggan]

And even so, couldn't they use the same strings to get their new monthly rules/adventure magazines into those stores that they use to get pathfinder in there?)

Nope. A magazine needs many other outlets than just the game stores, which carry Pathfinder. So they would not be able to reach the critical mass a magazine needs to turn around, if they want to continue Paizo at the the level of business they operate today.

Basically, they didn't create a new Dragon/Dungeon because they know the economical realities behind such a venture, and decided that it wasn't the best way to spend their resources.

/M

 

[Scribble]

Nope. A magazine needs many other outlets than just the game stores, which carry Pathfinder. So they would not be able to reach the critical mass a magazine needs to turn around, if they want to continue Paizo at the the level of business they operate today.

Why? I guess that's my biggest confusion.

Pathfinder is essentially a subscription based adventure series. Dungeon was essentially a subscription based adventure series (with more then just one adventure and not always an ongoing plot..)

why does one only need to exist in Game stores and the other needs more outlets when they are offering essentially the same resource?

Basically, they didn't create a new Dragon/Dungeon because they know the economical realities behind such a venture, and decided that it wasn't the best way to spend their resources.

Which is more confusion to me...

I guess the best answer is they weren't legally allowed...

 

[Maggan]

I guess the best answer is they weren't legally allowed...

No. The best answer is that it is economically impossible to put out a magazine that tries to be Dungeon/Dragon, without it having the name Dungeon or Dragon.

You would need to sell in the tens of thousands for a magazine to be successful on the scale that Dungeon and Dragon were. On the other hand you need to sell in the thousands to reach success with an rpg adventure.

And you have to print so many more copies of a magazine to reach those tens of thousands than you need to print adventures, which make the enterprise more expensive and more difficult to pull off.

The reality is that it is much, much, much more difficult to run a magazine than it is to publish adventures.

It is as I said also more expensive. Even Paizo said so in the quote above, but if you're not gonna take their word for it, I guess you're not gonna take mine.

/M