Sense Motive: How do you do it?

[Mistah J]

Hey everyone, I'm just polling informally to see how other people handle Sense Motive rolls in their games.

Namely, if an NPC lies does the GM ask for a Sense Motive roll from the players (which tips their hand) or do the players have to actively state they want to roll Sense Motive (which could bog down the game when they start asking after every minute of conversation).
What if it is not opposed rolls of Bluff vs. Sense Motive but rather the DC 20 check to "get a hunch"?
Can you assume the PCs are taking 10 on Sense Motive, unless they want to roll for higher? What about a particularly non-observant player whose character is a high Wisdom super-sleuth?

No one wants to see the roleplaying aspect of the game get turned into a series of dice rolls I'm sure, but what do you do to hit that balance of fun gaming and proper representation of the numbers?

Thanks

 

[concerro]

Most of the time I make them ask for it. If I think they deserve one without asking I roll for them secretly. If I say "roll sense motive" it is almost automatically assumed the NPC is not being completely truthful, and rightfully so.

 

[Friend of the Dork]

First of all, Sense Motive is no a lie detector. You can however get an idea that a person is not being generally truthful in a conversation, that he's trying to bluff/con you.

Action: Trying to gain information with Sense Motive generally takes at least 1 minute

That aside, it's generally best to not ask for sense motive checks from your players unless they ask for it, in which case it's still probably best to make the test for them secretly.

When you know your NPC is trying to fool the party, roll sense motive checks for the players secretly and discreetly (have the opponent take 10 for simplicity). If this reveals too much, you can even have pre-rolled tests in advance, which you can use for sense motive, perception etc. when you don't want your players to know something is up.

As a third option you can use misdirection - roll routinely when the PCs are talking to NPCs wether they are bluffing or not. Make sure the players know they can never be sure if you rolling means something or not.

Feedback: If they ask for sense motive and fail, I usually give the answer "you're not sure." If they succeed they either get "he seems trustworthy, or he's holding something back/isn't being completely honest." A major fail or very good bluff gives them one of these two results as well, so they can't be 100% sure in any case.

You gotta keep em on their toes Don't let a murder mystery etc. be solved by a simple sense motive check, but let them have a chance to be suspicous even when the players would normally not have a clue. It could be a lifesaver when a doppelganger wants to camp with the party and "replace" one of them in the night.

Oh and I occasionally ask the players to roll Sense Motive just to give them a chance to see if someone is particularily nervous, angry, shameful etc. If they automatically expect someone to be lying because of that, so be it.

 

[Jhaelen]

I never make or ask for a roll if none of the players are suspecting anything's amiss.

 

[IronWolf]

I make the players ask for a sense motive check.

 

[Friend of the Dork]

I never make or ask for a roll if none of the players are suspecting anything's amiss.

That's your prerogative. However If I knew that I would not put much in Sense Motive in your game. Either that or ask for sense motive checks whenever someone COULD be lying about something I'd care about.

 

[IronWolf]

That's your prerogative. However If I knew that I would not put much in Sense Motive in your game. Either that or ask for sense motive checks whenever someone COULD be lying about something I'd care about.

I play similar to Jhaelen and it doesn't seem to have been much of a problem in my games. The players do ask for Sense Motive checks when dealing with certain folks, we roll it and move forward.

Probably another one of those things where the style works for some groups and not others!

 

[Friend of the Dork]

I play similar to Jhaelen and it doesn't seem to have been much of a problem in my games. The players do ask for Sense Motive checks when dealing with certain folks, we roll it and move forward.

Probably another one of those things where the style works for some groups and not others!

If the players don't mind it works well. I'm just saying it makes the skill less useful. Just like the new Rogue trapsense ability makes Perception even more useful.

Unless I make a habit of it, I only ask for Perception checks if I'm suspicious, in which case I might as well assume falsehoods anyway and/or use magic like Discern Lies if possible.

Just out of curiosity, do you also just roll Sense Motive for your NPCs ONLY if they suspect something, or whenever the PCs try to Bluff them?

 

[Crothian]

Just out of curiosity, do you also just roll Sense Motive for your NPCs ONLY if they suspect something, or whenever the PCs try to Bluff them?

His PCs don't try to bluff the NPCs. We are unusually honest and like to tell the NPCs are thoughts and plans. In our defense we aren't very smart.

 

[IronWolf]

Just out of curiosity, do you also just roll Sense Motive for your NPCs ONLY if they suspect something, or whenever the PCs try to Bluff them?

Pretty much only if they suspect something. It can vary, but if the party is being pretty convincing and the NPC has no reason to suspect something then I wouldn't roll. If the story has some holes in it or the NPC is particularly untrusting then I would likely roll for it. So it can vary from situation to situation.