(OT) Hmmm Star Wars II Seen I Have!

[Mistwell]

I read the "preprogrammed audience" comment to mean that there is already a huge group of Star Wars fans who will go see the movie no matter what, just as a there are many Harry Potter fans who will automatically see the next Potter film and many Tolkien fans who will go see the next LotR film (and so on for Star Trek, Spiderman, and The Matrix). These are the faithful she is talking about. I know I'm "preprogrammed" in that way regarding the Two Towers and The Matrix....

By the way, do I really egg people on that badly? I thought I had finally found my middle ground. I may have to give up posting to message boards altogether....

Wolf, if all she had said was "a preprogrammed audience ready to go see the movie", you would be right. But that isn't what she said. What she said was "ready to like it whether it's any good or not." That is another way of saying mind-numbed robot. People who have been programmed to like a film even if it is bad. That's fan-bashing, pure and simple. I can't see any other reasonable way of interpreting her comment.

Look, all you have to know about STEPHANIE ZACHAREK is that she bags on top grossing movies as a way to attract attention. She bashed Titanic, right as it came out. Now, I'm no huge Titanic fan, but for a critic to bash it at that time was just baiting people to talk about her review. She's doing the same thing with AOTCs.

BTW, she was a big fan of Shallow Hal and Josie and the Pussycats.

 

[Wolfspider]

BTW, she was a big fan of Shallow Hal

Shallow Hal? Blech!

 

[Droogie]

The problem seems to be that Eps 1-3 take place a short time ago (relative to Ep 4) in a galaxy far, far away, but the thrust of the storyline and the character archetypes need it to take place a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.

Speaking of which, is it really true that Ep 3 will take place 20 years before Ep 4? An Evil Empire that lasts 20 years is pretty pathetic, if you ask me. The Qing dynasty lasted three centuries, and even the USSR lasted close to a century!

Well, the napoleonic "empire" lasted only 15 years, and the "third reich" lasted only 5.

In fact, I think Hitler's Germany is a perfect analogy for the Galactic Empire, moreso than say, ancient Rome. It was an empire by grand design, but never got completely off the ground thanks to the free peoples of the galaxy who would oppose it.

 

[Droogie]

Oh, and here is MY opinion of Ep II, in case anyone is still reading this thread. For all of you troopers who've gotten to page 12, THANK YOU!


I will be concise....

Breathtaking, enjoyable, over-the-top, epileptic-seizure-causing visuals. Someone might need to tell Lucas that less is more, but I guess if he had 21st century technology in 1977, ep 4 to 6 would have the same sensory overload.



Main beef: Poor acting and script. Abyssmal direction. I can't believe this is the same guy who directed American Graffiti. And the excuse that "ep 4-6 didn't have stellar acting either" doesn't hold up with me. The acting and directing in those films were far superior than ep II, IMO. Especially ESB. Lucas' rustiness behind the camera truly detracts from ep 2. I have to agree with some professional critics and say that Lucas has truly lost the human touch. Before, it was all about the characters, having an adventure through this fantastic setting. Now the fantastic setting is the main character.

But despite this, I still feel that the movie delivers. As previously mentioned, I can't stop thinking about this movie, and I wanna see it again. Kinda like pizza. Its terrible. But ohhhh so good.

Comments:
Chris Lee Rulz. At one point during the saber battle, I swear I thought I saw him do his classic Dracula Sneer. It was creepy. Loved it.

The jedi battle in the arena was swell....even tho 75% of that scene was hijacked by Threepio's stupid antics. Excuse me, WHY is he in this film again?

 

[EricNoah]

Another way to look at it is that Yoda doesn't use the Force unless he has to. Contrast this with Anakin, who thinks using the Force is fun and does so whenever possible.

I recall this very issue being raised in one of the New Order novels. Mara Jade and Anakin Solo are on some planet somewhere, and Anakin's natural instinct is to use the force to do everything -- lift stuff, etc., when he's perfectly capable of doing it himself. Mara instructs him to not use the force, and so he does some sort of manual labor without it. He draws this conclusion: over-reliance on the force causes you to underestimate those who don't use the force, because even "normal" people are capable of remarkable things. When you live as "normal" as possible, you both appreciate your fellow man (woman/rodian/etc.) more, and you are better equipped to deal with foes as well.

 

[hong]

Well, the napoleonic "empire" lasted only 15 years, and the "third reich" lasted only 5.

The Third Reich actually lasted closer to 10 years, if you start from Hitler's election as Chancellor. But who's counting?

In fact, I think Hitler's Germany is a perfect analogy for the Galactic Empire, moreso than say, ancient Rome. It was an empire by grand design, but never got completely off the ground thanks to the free peoples of the galaxy who would oppose it.

That's one way of looking at it, but given the well-known parallels between SW and eastern religion and spiritualism, it still feels a bit odd to me. Asian (and especially Chinese) history is filled with empires that lasted centuries, usually becoming old, corrupt and decrepit before being swept from power. I'd have thought these would be better analogies to the Galactic Empire than Nazi Germany.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Ok, time to vent some wrath!

Edena_of_Neith here.

And I say ...

Anakin Skywalker is great, and it stinks he dies at the end of Episode 6.

Why is Anakin Skywalker cool, neat, great, a real hero, and likeable?
Because I say so, that's why!
My opinion is that he is all of these things!

And so, there is only one thing to do, folks ...

Return of the Jedi must be remade, so that Anakin Skywalker LIVES.
And, if the Rebel Alliance doesn't like the fact Anakin lives, then they have to deal with him, Luke, Leia (who would stand by her father), Han Solo (who is in love with Leia), Chewbacca, and all of their allies.
Methinks I know who'd win that battle, and it ain't the Rebel Alliance!

I think Anakin deserves to live, at the end of Episode 6.

That business about Palpatine's lightning killing him - Luke withstood it for 30 seconds or more, and 7 seconds of it kills Anakin ... very fault machinery for Anakin? More likely very hard to believe.)

Now, everyone is perfectly able, and in their right, to disagree with me.

Who deserves to live?

A Jedi Council so ingrained in their ways they cannot imagine someone stealing a star chart from their own library?
Of course they could not possibly conceive of such simple things.
For that matter, they cannot perceive Palpatine's darkness when confronting him, face to face.
For THAT matter, they cannot spend the money (and don't tell me they didn't have enough money!) to free the mother of one of their own from slavery.
For THAT MATTER, they could not be bothered to even ALLOW a poor child to visit his enslaved mother for ten years.

FOR THAT MATTER, they state: Thou shalt not hate, fear, or love.

Hate and fear are the Dark Side, yes.
Doesn't that make love the Light Side?
However, we mustn't have emotions. We mustn't feel like human beings. We must be psychopaths.
We mustn't own anything. We musn't fulfill our own human (or inhuman) needs.
We gotta do exactly what we are told, and know Our Place (as Obi-Wan put it.)

Nevermind that Anakin has a metaclorine count higher than Yoda's.
Nevermind that he is extremely important, and even they - in their idiocy - know that.
Nevermind that they could have done things to help his mother, and not sat in their lofty tower in Coruscant until their brains rotted.
Nevermind that they could have cared.

But, of course, these are the Good Guys.
Anakin becomes the Bad Guy.
He must die for it.

I say, rewrite some parts of Episodes 4, 5, and 6.

Either that, or give me a VERY GOOD REASON, in Episode 3, for believing Anakin deserves to die at the end of Episode 6.

Because right now, I am thinking Anakin got the raw deal, all the way around, from a bunch of idiots and incompetents (no offense, Yoda, but you expressed the very fear, in Episode 1, that you preach against so much.)

I'm rooting for Anakin. Go Anakin!

Now here is a REAL rebel, not a pretender, like some of those in the Rebel Alliance.

These are my feelings.
And they won't change.

However, this is not a troll.
If you believe differently than I do, that's great.
Say so, and you will receive no flames from me.

I shall reserve my flames for those idiot Jedi, and the idiot Senate, and that idiot Jar Jar whose vote - singlehandedly - played the key role in creating the Empire.

Funny thing - I LIKED Jar Jar Binks in Episode I.
I must be the ONLY one who did.

But not now.
Silliness and stupidity are one thing - casting the vote that killed billions of people and brought about the Empire, and gave victory into the hands of Palpatine - that is not funny, humorous, or likable.

It is sickening, horrifying, and Jar Jar utterly betrayed Amidala, who never would have voted that way, made it clear she would not have - and I hope the Emperor personally roasts Jar Jar to a fine well done state with his lightning bolts.

Edena_of_Neith

P:S

And no, I do not sympathize with the Sand People. If they must create a society that abducts, tortures, multilates, and thus kills innocent women (and, by implication, children), without cause, reason, or anything other than pure savagery, then they should expect retaliation in kind.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

Comparisons

And yes, the comparison between the Galactic Republic and Weimar Germany is overwhelming and obvious.

It was obvious about 10 minutes into Episode I, and In Your Face obvious halfway through Episode I.

And it is sad.
It is devastatingly sad.
Some of us remember Real World History, and obviously George Lucas remembers.

Amidala said, to paraphrase, in Episode II: If people stop believing in democracy, the institutions of democracy will fail.

People did stop believing in democracy, IRL, in a most horrifying and ghastly way, in 1932, in Germany.

That collapse, that failure of belief in the tenets of democracy, the institutions of democracy, would go on to kill 80 million people, reduce large parts of the real world to ruin and ash, produce the largest massacres of innocent people ever in world history, and ultimately produce the weapon that might very well destroy the Earth one day.

 

[Edena_of_Neith]

A respectful disagreement

Posted by Eric Noah:

I recall this very issue being raised in one of the New Order novels. Mara Jade and Anakin Solo are on some planet somewhere, and Anakin's natural instinct is to use the force to do everything -- lift stuff, etc., when he's perfectly capable of doing it himself. Mara instructs him to not use the force, and so he does some sort of manual labor without it.

He draws this conclusion: over-reliance on the force causes you to underestimate those who don't use the force, because even "normal" people are capable of remarkable things. When you live as "normal" as possible, you both appreciate your fellow man (woman/rodian/etc.) more, and you are better equipped to deal with foes as well.

Comment:

I do not disagree with the second paragraph.
I am not sure that Anakin did draw this conclusion, but since I am not sure, I have no opinion.

However, I believe Mara was in the wrong, IF the implication is that the Force can be overused, in the sense of Anakin overusing it to telekinesis things around.

I say that, if you have legs, you use them.
You walk. You run. You kick the soccer ball.

I say that, if you have the Force, you use it.
Telekinesis all you want.
Anyone who ever had to carry a piano up a flight of steps could tell you the Force would have come in handy here!
And don't spare the lightsabre. Use it, or lose it - practice, practice, and then practice some more.
Feel the Force, and use it - all the time, altogether.

I never saw Yoda doing much physically - he could not be bothered to walk around, when technology could conveniently carry him!!
And yet Yoda proved, in the end, to be the greatest Force-fencer of all.

In a society of such advanced science, give me the pills (they are inventing such pills IRL, by the way - check the news) that bring strength and energy.
Give me the discipline to use that strength and energy from using the Force - THAT takes strength and discipline all of it's own (it is not a lazy act to telekinesis things like fruit!).

And so, if the point is that Anakin overused the Force (and this is implied, when Anakin states Obi-Wan would have chastised him for levitating said fruit) is nonsense.

Then again, Obi-Wan would later admit (in Episode 6) that he was quite the incompetent teacher.
I must respectfully AGREE with Obi-Wan Kenobi, on his self-assessment.

 

[Mouseferatu]

In case anyone's still reading, my review, as posted in my Livejournal...


So the lights went down, the previews rolled, and the 20th Century Fox logo came on...

Drum roll... And the music starts.

And despite the relative disappointment of Phantom Menace, despite my attempts not to get my hopes up, I found the goofy grin creeping over my face again. I couldn't help it. At least for a few minutes, for the duration of the opening crawl if nothing else, it was Star Wars again.

And now that it's over?

I couldn't shake that grin; for most of the movie, I was smiling like an idiot. Lucas has absolutely redeemed himself.

It's not a perfect movie, and if you go in expecting a perfect movie, you're doomed to disappointment. Some of the dialogue, particularly when Anakin is trying to be romantic, is still painfully--well, Lucas. Some of 3PO's comic relief got to be too much and annoying; it's like he picked up the slack from Jar-Jar. (Yes, that means JJ has very little screen time, and what time he has isn't nearly as annoying as he was. In fact, he's almost a tragic character now...) And portions of the movie--from, say, 20% in to about 50% in--are a little slow in places. (Not that it's slow throughout that time, just that certain scenes are slow.)

But you know what? It's still absolutely Star Wars. It's still worth watching. And it's still got numerous action scenes that will, even if you think you're jaded to today's special effects, make your jaw drop. While none of the fights are as acrobatically impressive as Darth Maul from Phantom Menace, they're just as good--or better--in other ways.

Those scenes we've seen in the trailers and commercials, where Anakin is whining and being petulent. They work. Forget the commercials and watch them in context, with other things going on around them, and they make absolute sense. I thought the actor (name escapes me at the moment) did an excellent job.

Jango Fett kicks ass. Obi-wan kicks ass. Mace Windu kicks mega-ass.

But rule number one: never, ever piss off the little green guy. And I don't mean Kermit.

There are three true compliments I could give a movie like this.

I could say I'm going to see it again.

I could say that I'm actually upset that I have to wait three years for the next one.

I could say that we have Star Wars back.

I went into this movie hoping I'd be able to say at least one of those. But you know what? They're all three true.

Oh, and John Williams is still God.