D&D (2024) Monster Change: Force Damage vs. Magic Weapons

[Weiley31]

It might work for a select few, but if it's too broad, it's gonna suck. If this is to nerf things like barbarian rage, it's a terrible way to handle it.

Sadly, this seems like that not only does it "buff" demons/demon lords/what have ya, it will also pretty much cause Barbarians not to be so "tanky" against such enemies. Because Rage isn't resistant against Force Damage. Heck, the way Spell Resistance is now worded, WoTC probably intentionally made it that way to avoid it somehow working against the "questionable" spell-like attacks that Monsters of the Multiverse gave things. Which is already in that zone of "but it can't" despite people being able to argue "but it can!"

 

[HammerMan]

I am a bit on the fence, but I generally don't like it. I understand that it simplifies things and make some game design sense. However, with the return BPS damage in 5e I don't want magical versions of BPS to be force instead.

i think it works for bludgeoning (cause magic force/Telekinetic force always seemed like magic blunt force trauma) but it's weird for slashing and peircing...

 

[Charlaquin]

Do monsters in MMM have resistances/immunities to nonmagical BPS? If any of them do, we can probably assume this is a one-sided change; monsters deal force damage instead of magical BPS damage, but still resist nonmagical BPS, which magic weapons will circumvent. If none of them do, it’s probably a symmetrical change; force damage will replace magical BPS damage entirely.

 

[Weiley31]

Do monsters in MMM have resistances/immunities to nonmagical BPS? If any of them do, we can probably assume this is a one-sided change; monsters deal force damage instead of magical BPS damage, but still resist nonmagical BPS, which magic weapons will circumvent. If none of them do, it’s probably a symmetrical change; force damage will replace magical BPS damage entirely.

Yes, Orcus for example is immune to any form of non-magical BPS weapons. The Nightwalker on page 194 is Resistant against non-magical BPS attacks(which weapons would fall under).

So it is indeed one-sided changes for monsters. To be honest, it's always have been one-sided before, but the Force Damage in the attack blocks for devils, demons, Orcus, and others are new.

 

[Weiley31]

But then again: the removal of the Magic Weapon trait is a result of WoTC streamlining the monster stat blocks for players. By seeing Demogorgon/Orcus/whoever doing Force Damage in their attack section, it automatically represents that their "Weapons(Attacks) are Magical." Thus making the idea of writing out/using the Trait "Magical Weapon" and taking up word space redundant.

 

[Mort]

It might work for a select few, but if it's too broad, it's gonna suck. If this is to nerf things like barbarian rage, it's a terrible way to handle it.

Nerf regular Barbarian rage, while making the Bear Barbarian an even stronger choice - yuck.

I hope it's narrow, because if this is a broad change - it's a really bad one!

 

[Charlaquin]

Yes, Orcus for example is immune to any form of non-magical BPS weapons. The Nightwalker on page 194 is Resistant against non-magical BPS attacks(which weapons would fall under).

So they still aren’t consistent with the wording there?

 

[Weiley31]

I hope it's narrow

Depends on what you mean by "narrow." Because anything that had the trait Magic Weapon will probably end up doing Force Damage in their stat blocks now (Errata/DND Beyond) or, in the case of somebody like Geryon, their attacks will do something that Barbarian Rage doesn't resist. For example: Geryon's attacks do Cold Damage (Claws) and Force Damage (Tail.)

Guess which types Rage doesn't provide Resistance against unless your race happens to be one of the few that would resist one of those two.

 

[Charlaquin]

Nerf regular Barbarian rage, while making the Bear Barbarian an even stronger choice - yuck.

I hope it's narrow, because if this is a broad change - it's a really bad one!

IIRC, not very many monsters had the magic weapon trait in the first place, so it’s a pretty small nerf/buff.

 

[Weiley31]

So they still aren’t consistent with the wording there?

I don't think its that. The Nightwalker isn't immune to non-magical weapons. It's just that a non-magical sword won't do as much damage against it.

Orcus? He's a flipping Demon Prince. A regular sword ain't gonna do jack because he's a BBEG sort of fight, compared to a Nightwalker which would be the equivalent of a Mid-Boss or late-stage boss in a video game.

So, there's a distinction of something there.