D&D 5E Bigger monsters do more damage

[dave2008]

I just had an idea when posting the pick below in the dragons thread. Bigger monsters need to do more damage. The DMG or MM (I can't remember which) gives guidance that as weapons in crease in size. Just give them another die. So a Large sword does 2d8 instead of 1d8 damage. I generally apply the same idea to my monsters. So if a Medium monster's tail does 1d8 damage (+ mod) then a Gargantuan should do 4d8 (+ mod) damage, right?

However, what if we increased the mod damage and the dice. So for each step up in size you add another mod. damage. So you would have 8 (1d8+4) damage for a Medium tail attack (STR 18) or 58 (4d8 +40) for a Gargantuan one. That seems better than what we get in the MM!

Red Dragon Tail: 19 (2d8 + 10) vs.
Improved Red Dragon Tail: 58 (4d8 +40)

Here is an example I developed with these ideas later in the thread:

 

[GMMichael]

Well, our friend the 20th level fighter (who's having a bad day if his party is fighting a gargantuan red dragon) has, what, 20d10 hit points, plus 20x5 Con bonus points? About 210 HP? A damage boost like you're proposing is a first-round kill on the fighter who gets hit by a good multiattack and legendary tail swipe.

But no fighter should get to 20th level without having a modicum of sense, and some decent allies. And a cloak of displacement. So I'd say go for it!

 

[the Jester]

You are significantly increasing the damage output, and therefore the Challenge Rating, of bigger monsters. This may result in making many bigger monsters that are otherwise appropriate for low to mid level pcs shift to where they are only appropriate for higher level pcs to face, which may have further effects such as shifting what level a canned adventure is appropriate for.

Not that that is necessarily bad- but be mindful of the knock on effects of what you're proposing.

 

[dave2008]

Well, our friend the 20th level fighter (who's having a bad day if his party is fighting a gargantuan red dragon) has, what, 20d10 hit points, plus 20x5 Con bonus points? About 210 HP? A damage boost like you're proposing is a first-round kill on the fighter who gets hit by a good multiattack and legendary tail swipe.

But no fighter should get to 20th level without having a modicum of sense, and some decent allies. And a cloak of displacement. So I'd say go for it!

You are significantly increasing the damage output, and therefore the Challenge Rating, of bigger monsters. This may result in making many bigger monsters that are otherwise appropriate for low to mid level pcs shift to where they are only appropriate for higher level pcs to face, which may have further effects such as shifting what level a canned adventure is appropriate for.

Not that that is necessarily bad- but be mindful of the knock on effects of what you're proposing.

To be clear, this proposal would be part of general monster redesign. I am not suggesting just slapping this on existing monsters and running with it (unless you want to of course).

 

[Stoutstien]

As a general trend for design for large and larger creatures, I'd rather their attacks hit wider areas and multiple targets than just ramping damage up as single attacks.
Not only does this make it a little bit more friendly to the iconic tropes that you're trying to play out with this type of encounter it also let you clean up the stat blocks a little bit because now you don't need 15 different types of multi attacks.

 

[LordEntrails]

How much damage does this guy do?

 

[dave2008]

As a general trend for design for large and larger creatures, I'd rather their attacks hit wider areas and multiple targets than just ramping damage up as single attacks.
Not only does this make it a little bit more friendly to the iconic tropes that you're trying to play out with this type of encounter it also let you clean up the stat blocks a little bit because now you don't need 15 different types of multi attacks.

I like that strategy as well, and have made monsters like that. However, even gargantuan monsters often have attacks that will strike a single target.

Spoiler: Godzilla Stomp

Stomp. Melee Weapon Attack: +19 to hit, reach 75 ft., one Gargantuan or smaller target or prone or incapacitated target with the colossal trait. Hit: 307 (35d8 + 150) bludgeoning damage and fall prone. Until Godzilla uses its Stomp again or moves, the target is restrained. While restrained in this way, the creature (or another creature within 5 feet of it) can use its action to make a DC 27 Strength check. On a success, the creature relocates to an unoccupied space of its choice within 5 feet of Godzilla and is no longer restrained. Each creature within a 30-foot radius of the target must make a DC 27 Dexterity saving throw or take the same damage, knocked prone, and restrained as the target.

 

[dave2008]

Also, I just wanted to add that in my home game we handle this completely differently. We have a much smaller "meat" points in addition to HP. If those get hit by even a MM dragon you are squished.

 

[Stormonu]

Well, our friend the 20th level fighter (who's having a bad day if his party is fighting a gargantuan red dragon) has, what, 20d10 hit points, plus 20x5 Con bonus points? About 210 HP? A damage boost like you're proposing is a first-round kill on the fighter who gets hit by a good multiattack and legendary tail swipe.

But no fighter should get to 20th level without having a modicum of sense, and some decent allies. And a cloak of displacement. So I'd say go for it!

I'd say more around 174 hp, but! there's a good chance either via magic items or spells he can mitigate a lot more. Conversely, the wizard's only likely to have around 72 hp or so. But honestly, this is a CR 30 creature in the first place, it ought to be deadly.

You are significantly increasing the damage output, and therefore the Challenge Rating, of bigger monsters. This may result in making many bigger monsters that are otherwise appropriate for low to mid level pcs shift to where they are only appropriate for higher level pcs to face, which may have further effects such as shifting what level a canned adventure is appropriate for.

Not that that is necessarily bad- but be mindful of the knock on effects of what you're proposing.

The change to CR would have to be accounted for, but the biggest knock-on will be on Huge and Gargantuan creatures. It would definitely be useful to getting some higher CR beasts, currently the highest is CR 8, with the T Rex (and maybe it'll put that bugger out of the range of being something druids shift into).

I do think that a mix of enlarging the attack area might be the route to go for some attacks (tail swipes, stomp attacks), and increasing the damage (claws, bite, weapons) for others. A lot of the really big creatures just don't seem to pack the whallop they really should.

 

[dave2008]

But honestly, this is a CR 30 creature in the first place, it ought to be deadly.

Actually, a red dragon is CR 24. Still a valid point though!