Microlite20 : the smallest thing in gaming

[Land Outcast]

Can you provide more detail on the common pool thing? I understand dividing them into squads...

Oh, as simple as you can think it is: picture the classical image of the hero in the middle of the battle, dropping enemies by the dozen.

Instead of using identical soldiers A and B, I use this:
HP: A+B
AC: A+2
Attack: A+2
Damage: A+(B's average damage /2)

A, B, and C:
HP: A+B+C
AC: A+4
Attack: A+4
Damage: A+(B's average damage /2)+(C's average damage/2) = A+B

once they lose their total hp (given I use them at higher levels, usually it results to be in one round) the squad dies. Maybe in big numbers it results incoherent, but I never use them in numbers greater than 5

 

[jezter6]

The ogre gets one +8 attack because that's what it says in the MM – and I'm keeping conversion to a minimum. Now, if this was a ogre with fighter levels and all that, I'd model him as a fighter using the stats given. But as it is, this is the standard ogre. In the beginning, I used to give monsters the same kind of multi-attacks, but then Greywulf mentioned somewhere in this thread that he just used them as-is.

The mage gets STR + 3d6, so the average dice roll was (18-5)/3 = 4⅓. The rogue's average dice roll was (21-12)/3 = 3. I guess you forgot to add the STR stat at first level.

Got it, I was thinking STR 'bonus' not the whole STR stat. That changes things a little.
I still stand by my arguments, however.

 

[kensanata]

I still stand by my arguments, however.

Hehe, and here I was thinking I had refuted your very argument by performing an experiment that invalidated your prediction...

 

[greywulf]

Folks, I've amended the Revised Core Rules to read:

Multiple attacks with the first weapon can be made using cumulative -5 penalties as long as the total attack bonus remains positive. For example, if the total bonus is +12, three attacks can be made at +12, +7, and +2. If a second weapon is used, there are two attacks with the first weapon to be made at +10 and +5, and another attack with the second weapon at +10.

No more that four attacks may be made in a single round, regardless of bonus. If fighting with two weapons, this increases the limit to five attacks, at least one of which must be with the second weapon. For example, if s Rogue has a total bonus of +20, he could attack with paired shortswords at +18/+18/+13/+8/+3 or a single shortsword at +20/+15/+10/+5.

There you go. Maximum four attacks in a round, though a Two-Weapon Fighting dude gets an extra one to make it five. Hope that resolves that one for good

I've retro-ed it into the Core Rules too, for completeness. They're going to be replaced by the Revised ones by the end of the week anyway. Stay tuned for more info, etc.

Also, I've started work on the Playtest Notes. The Iconic Fighter is up, stated for levels 1-10, 15 and 20. I'll add the Rogue, Cleric and Mage over the next day or two, then start pushing out the playtest notes themselves.

All this is going into Big Shiny too. Tables. Ick.

Comments, yadda yadda.

 

[eyebeams]

Folks, I've amended the Revised Core Rules to read:



There you go. Maximum four attacks in a round, though a Two-Weapon Fighting dude gets an extra one to make it five. Hope that resolves that one for good

I've retro-ed it into the Core Rules too, for completeness. They're going to be replaced by the Revised ones by the end of the week anyway. Stay tuned for more info, etc.

Also, I've started work on the Playtest Notes. The Iconic Fighter is up, stated for levels 1-10, 15 and 20. I'll add the Rogue, Cleric and Mage over the next day or two, then start pushing out the playtest notes themselves.

All this is going into Big Shiny too. Tables. Ick.

Comments, yadda yadda.

You should probably make it *base* attack bonus, as the way it's worded, I can attack more by getting additional bonuses.

 

[greywulf]

You should probably make it *base* attack bonus, as the way it's worded, I can attack more by getting additional bonuses.

Yes, you can in Microlite20. There's is no concept of "base attack bonus" at all. If someone has a total to-hit of +5 and picks up a +1 Longsword, they get +6/+1. No, it's not like D&D. Yes, I think it's better, because it's simpler.

When it comes to Monsters from the SRD which have just a +8 to-hit listed, I tend to play them as that, not giving them a second attack (though I could). I picture large flailing but devastating attacks, rather than precision from training.

Make sense?

 

[jezter6]

Hehe, and here I was thinking I had refuted your very argument by performing an experiment that invalidated your prediction...

Good luck with that. I'm a hard head and don't budge sometimes.

Having STR (full stat score and not just stat bonus) certainly helps, but IMHO only at low levels. It certainly makes it less deadly early, which I'll admit I will change my opinion of that.

However, I still think that in the long run, PCs will not survive long. Not with multiple attacks and only 80-some odd HP going into the 20th level range.

 

[jezter6]

Yes, you can in Microlite20. There's is no concept of "base attack bonus" at all. If someone has a total to-hit of +5 and picks up a +1 Longsword, they get +6/+1. No, it's not like D&D. Yes, I think it's better, because it's simpler.

When it comes to Monsters from the SRD which have just a +8 to-hit listed, I tend to play them as that, not giving them a second attack (though I could). I picture large flailing but devastating attacks, rather than precision from training.

Make sense?

Actually...no.

There IS a concept of base attack bonus...it's LEVEL. You can name it what you want, but it's still a base attack bonus (no matter what, you have LEVEL +/- modifiers...that's what makes it a base).

With all PC classes able to get multiple attacks as low as lvls 1-3, not giving the ogre his due is making him signifigantly weaker in comparison.

Aside from the +1 to hit at lvls 1, 5, 10, 15, 20...I still see no need to be a fighter at all outside of the ability to wear armor. A high STR expert will kick as much behind as everyone else. Everyone gets a full BAB anyways, so they'll be able to hit any monster within a fair CR range without any problems at all,

 

[greywulf]

There you go. The Iconic stats are done for levels 1-10, 15 and 20. There's links to all of them from the Playtest Notes page. I think the numbers are right - I need to take a break and double-check them tomorrow.

Note that these iconics are with basic equipment only, so add magic items (and pepper) to taste. I did it that way because it's much easier to add stuff to the stats than it is to take it away. For the playtests themselves, these stats are used, plus equipment suitable for their level. A few of the playtests we're going to run again because:

a) the setup was too complete to explain in a brief paragraph. I mean, how can I explain why the adventurers ended up hanging upside down below a rope bridge while being attacked by hobgoblins from above?
b) the PCs had NPC help. That makes for more complexity and not suitable for use as fair examples
c) as DM I fudged a few of the rolls. Again, not a good playtest (but fun though!)

and

d) they're just not interesting.

Otherwise, I'm just slotting these stats into my existing playtest notes so there's consistency of scale. You'll be able to see how a 5th level party of the same heroes fairs as compared to their 1st level counterparts, etc.

That's the plan, anyway

EDIT: Jezter, if it makes you feel better to call it BAB, that's fine by me. But it's not M20 works with totals only, not "parts of the total given a special name so we can hang more rules off it" as it is with D&D.

 

[WSmith]

I never really want to be that guy that interjects only a opinion with little to add, but...

I just want to say I don't bother with the whole multiple attacks thing. I just use the quasi-cleave option I commented on in the Macropedia. It works great. Plus it is simple. I know not everyone would feel the same, but that is okay. I am different. Although I never thought to just apply the straight damage to another target without an attack roll like Darrell said, that does give me an idea.

If the total attack bonuses alone exceed the AC of the creature, roll only damage as the hit would be automatic. The remainder of bonuses that exceed the AC, are applied to an actual additional attack roll.

For example, Fred the Fighting Freak Is attacking a large Tiger-rat (AC 17) with a longsword. His total bonuses to hit are 20. He would only roll 1d8 + any bonuses to damage on the first attack, and roll 1d20 + 3 to hit and 1d8 + any damage bonuses for the second attack. (20 - 17 = 3)

BTW, I also like CHA, so blahhh!