Magical Sneak Attack Q

[gamecat]

Sorry, ladies, one of us has to be right...

From the DMG, page 76.

- A creature gains 5 temporary hit points for each negative energy level it inflics (though not if the negative level is caused by a spell or similar effect.

Announcer: POINT! GAMECAT!

 

[Caliban]

I know its powerful, but as was pointed out it would be weird to see someone fighting with -10 on all his attack rolls and saving throws but still have the hitpoints of a 10th level fighter - especially given how I view hitpoints as coming a lot from skill and luck, it just doesn't jive with my sense of things well.

But...I'll have to look at it from a balance point of view too, so until then I'm undecided.

Question: I've never had a character fail a level drain check before, but if they do, they would lose the hitpoints from that level right? I would assume so, but I'm very unclear now.

IceBear

*shrug* For creatures with level drain attack, you are already losing hit points from their physical attack. Losing hit points from the level drain as well just sucks.

And if you actually do lose the level (by failing your Fort save 24 hours later), you actually lose the hit points (and everything else) associated with that level.

I'm probably biased on this, because my highest level character is a wizard, and he lives in fear of Enervation.

 

[Caliban]

Sorry, ladies, one of us has to be right...



Announcer: POINT! GAMECAT!

Err... that part was never in dispute. It was whether or not you LOSE 5 hit points when you gain a negative level.

 

[IceBear]

Yes. If you fail the save and lose a level, you lose everything you gained from that level. The best part? Figuring up how many hit points and skill points you lose wasn't addressed. Seems that the designers don't track their character progression either.

Yeah, but that's always been a problem. I just have them roll for hitpoint loss and I record that. When they gain a level they get that amount back, no rolling. This avoids losing a level having an unexpected benefit - giving you more hitpoints that you originally such as if you had rolled a 1 originally and then max when you gained the level back. (Though even then I could rationalize it as you being more skilled than you were before so it's not that important).

Also, not as difficult, but if you lose 4 or more levels you'd have to remember what stat got increased and what feats were taken.

What I have a harder time with is a 10th level fighter fighting like a 1st level fighter in all respects except hitpoints when I see hitpoints coming mainly from skill at avoiding damage.

IceBear

 

[gamecat]

Do I feel sheepish... If it (DMG or SRD) doesn't say you do lose 5 hp, than I say you don't.

Announcer= PENALTY ON GAMECAT!

 

[IceBear]

Oh no...officially you don't lose the 5hp as Caliban pointed out on page 2. We aren't arguing that. I'm struggling with the idea of whether or not I want to Rule 0 it, that's all.

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

Do I feel sheepish... If it (DMG or SRD) doesn't say you do lose 5 hp, than I say you don't.

That's just the problem. The DMG says you don't. The SRD says you do. But I think we've agreed that the DMG and MM Errata overrides the SRD on this one.

 

[Caliban]

Yeah, but that's always been a problem. I just have them roll for hitpoint loss and I record that. When they gain a level they get that amount back, no rolling. This avoids losing a level having the benefit of giving you more hitpoints that you originally had if you rolled a 1 originally and then max the next time. Not as difficult, but you lose 4 or more levels you'd have to remember what stat got increased and what feats were taken.

What I have a harder time with is a 10th level fighter fighting like a 1st level fighter in all respects except hitpoints when I see hitpoints coming mainly from skill at avoiding damage.

IceBear

I just did away with rolling for hit points altogether. It makes calculating these things so much easier.

(I generally use the RPGA Living City method: 32 point buy, Max hit points for the first 2 levels, 75% of your HD for every level after that. D4 =3, D6 = 4, D8 =6, D10 =7, D12=9)

 

[IceBear]

But Caliban is right. If you read the MM errata for Energy Drain you will see that it's VERY detailed. And when it lists the penalties for a negative level, -5 hitpoints isn't one of them.

Thus, I come to the same conclusion as Caliban, the SRD is from before the MM errata.

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

(I generally use the RPGA Living City method: 32 point buy, Max hit points for the first 2 levels, 75% of your HD for every level after that. D4 =3, D6 = 4, D8 =6, D10 =7, D12=9)

Does that seem to work well for you? I've been thinking of using point buy from and static hit points from now on but I haven't talked to anyone that uses those methods. That, and I've never even looked at the point buy system before.