Magical Sneak Attack Q

[Caliban]

So assuming that Energy Drain(the spell) does not cause the loss of 5 hp, does sneak attack damage apply? I know that crits apply...it SA does apply, exactly what kind of damage is it?

According to Tome and Blood, the sneak attack damage would be Negative Energy Hit Point damage (not negative levels).

I personally have some trouble envisioning a "level" organ or vital area of your soul that can be targeted or criticaled for additional damage, but that's what it says.

 

[IceBear]

Ok...Caliban is right (not surprised) in that they did have Errata for Energy Drain in the MM and there is no mention of the -5hp now. Since it's a pretty detailed errata, I'd have to say you don't lose hitpoints from Energy Drain now.

It seems odd that with a negative level you don't lose any hitpoints even though your character is worse in almost every other aspect.

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

It seems odd that with a negative level you don't lose any hitpoints even though your character is worse in almost every other aspect.

IceBear

Yeah, it's odd indeed. I always thought that the reason you lost 5 hit points was because the attacking creature was stealing them from you. I guess the 5 hit points it gains are from just sapping you of your levels. Still seems really frickin' strange. I have this really odd image of a 20th level fighter getting drained to 1st level, after failing all of his saves, but still having over 200 hit points.

Also, check this out. It's a response from the Sage about the Vampire's Energy Drain (Su) attack...

In the FAQ, you made this statement about "temporary hit points" when answering a question about the "body feeder" weapon quality:

"In general, any effect that allows you to gain temporary hit points over time allows you to stack those points, but only those points."

I'm confused about how that applies to creatures with the special ability "energy drain". For example, a vampire succeeds at a slam attack against the party inflicting two negative levels and gaining 10 temporary hit points. Before his next turn, he takes one hit for 5 hp damage. He then succeeds at another slam attack, inflicting two more negative levels. Does he gain another 10 temporary hit points?

Yes.

Is that not strange or what? The MM Errata says nothing about the hit points gained from an Energy Drain attack being temporary. It could be that this is just an old reply, but this whole thing is damn confusing.

Argh.

 

[IceBear]

I have this really odd image of a 20th level fighter getting drained to 1st level, after failing all of his saves, but still having over 200 hit points.

Same here - it doesn't sit right with me.

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

Same here - it doesn't sit right with me.

IceBear

Take a gander at this theory...

I think the reason you are supposed to lose 5 hit points per negative level is because nobody keeps track of where all of their hit points came from when they leveled. Because of that, if you lose 5 levels, how are you supposed to know how many hit points to remove? Sure, you know exactly how many you should remove due to your Con bonus and what not, but what about the hit points you got when you rolled for them? How do you know how many to remove? I don't know many people that track what they rolled when they leveled, except for those whose DM requires it. Also, what about when you got a stat increase? Losing 5 hit points per negative level is the easiest way to do this without having to track every step of your character's development, and it's also pretty fair. Not to mention that it also very effectively represents your weakening state while in the fight, instead of just suddenly getting weak 24 hours later.

Argh.

 

[IceBear]

That was exactly my reasoning on why they picked 5 hitpoints - a quick a dirty number to use for an average. If the character failed the save then I would have made them roll for hitpoints and then subtract them from the original and keep that in my notes. When he got the level back he would have gotten those hitpoints back.

Anyway, if it's not offical, I think I'll house rule you lose 5hp per temporary negative level.

IceBear

 

[Caliban]

That was exactly my reasoning on why they picked 5 hitpoints - a quick a dirty number to use for an average. If the character failed the save then I would have made them roll for hitpoints and then subtract them from the original and keep that in my notes. When he got the level back he would have gotten those hitpoints back.

Anyway, if it's not offical, I think I'll house rule you lose 5hp per temporary negative level.

IceBear

I think that makes level draining too powerful, especially against spellcasters.

Enervation would deal 5-20 damage, cause you to lose 1d4 spells, as well as giving a -1 to -4 on all your skill, attack, ability and save rolls. For most arcane casters 20 hit points is a large percentage of their total.

I like it better without doing the extra hit point damage, it's bad enough as it is. I'm glad the MM was errata'd to remove that, and I hope they fix the SRD soon.

 

[IceBear]

I know its powerful, but as was pointed out it would be weird to see someone fighting with -10 on all his attack rolls and saving throws but still have the hitpoints of a 10th level fighter - especially given how I view hitpoints as coming a lot from skill and luck, it just doesn't jive with my sense of things well.

But...I'll have to look at it from a balance point of view too, so until then I'm undecided.

Question: I've never had a character fail a level drain check before, but if they do, they would lose the hitpoints from that level right? I would assume so, but I'm very unclear now.

IceBear

 

[kreynolds]

Question: I've never had a character fail a level drain check before, but if they do, they would lose the hitpoints from that level right? I would assume so, but I'm very unclear now.

IceBear

Yes. If you fail the save and lose a level, you lose everything you gained from that level. The best part? Figuring up how many hit points and skill points you lose wasn't addressed. Seems that the designers don't track their character progression either.

 

[Uller]

Maybe it would be better to have the targe lose 1 level's worth of HP?(so a wizard with +1 Con bonus would lose 1d4+1 hp)

I guess that is still overpowered for a 4th level spell...