see, i have to disagree here that 'casters' is the same thing as 'access to spells', i've advocated for letting martials have modified access to certain types of spells because their nature as being these specific packets of fiat ability is exactly the sort of thing what martials lack and need, even if i don't specifically want to give them to the martials as slots magic or messing around with components, let my ordinary fighter replicate the effects of 'find steed' nonmagically with an animal handling check
This does inspire one possible and easily-implemented nerf: take out ALL spells that take less than a full action to cast, with two exceptions that are kept at reaction or interrupt speed:
Featherfall
Counterspell
Then, for those spells that just got nuked that are worth keeping as full-action spells, put them back in as such.
An even-further step: for Featherfall and Counterspell, if they are the first spell you have cast in a round, that's it for your round (it replaces your full-action spell); and if it's the second spell you have cast in a round you cannot cast any spell of any kind next round, and have to do something else instead.
Sure, but this is contrary to the post I responded to that focused on fixing the popular, fun spells, so other spells theoretically become more popular, not eliminating the fun spells.
This goes in a different direction and just gets rid of said spells.
That's fine. You do you. But I was answering for me, and responding to someone other than you.
And all three of us, then, are apt to have highly different opinions of what constitutes "realism", and why we want one bit of realism, but are willing to discard others. I find those discussions to be unproductive, so I am not going there.
But, in the end, if you want your fighters "realistic", that suggests changes to the fighter, not to the wizard.
I don't think it is OP at all and I saw it in play a lot when it was new and still see it occasionally now. I think it is less powerful than Bless, Goodberry, Faerie Fire, Healing Word, Dissonant Whispers, Hex and several other 1st level spells.
As a 1st level spell, it is about equal with Cause Fear, Command, Magic Missile, Tasha's Laughter, Sanctuary and most of the Ranger/Paladin weapon spells. It is good, not great.
I agree 100% that it is a fun suck, and that is kind of my point. It is still allowed at every table I play, but I rarely see it now. Probably both because it is not that powerful and not fun. If it was truly OP players would pretty much have to take it.
Where I see SB most today is on Bards and Rogue-Arcane Tricksters (on AT because it is an enchantment) and I see it for a reason similar to what I stated above - They can't get Shield (in the case of Rogue because they want Find Familiar).
I would only alter the spells, not the wizard class itself. I would take all the overpowered spells and turn their power down to be more equal with the other spells.
But then you have to wonder if the other players are going to have to permanently accept playing the lackeys to the person playing the wizard, because otherwise the wizard players will be upset. "I could deal with this situation but I'm saving my spells for important tasks so the Rogue/Fighter/lackey can deal with it," that doesn't sound like good game design. It sounds like being the secondary player in someone else's story.
Going with the presumption that in 5E D&D (of whatever particular flavor, 2014 or 2024 or ToV or A5E or whatever) and you wanted to bring thew wizard (and other full casters) down to ensure more parity with primarily martial characters, how would you personally, in your campaigns that you would actually play, do that?
There are a lot of potential options, from curating spell lists to instituting casting rolls to reducing the availability of cantrips and/or spell slots. So, what would you do.
This may not look like a nerf at first but please follow...
my wizard class would go back to d4s for HD, and would look more like a hybrid of warlock and artificer.
take the artificer spell progression 1-5, but never have more then 3 slots per level of spell... but go with the current (not new 2024) prepr level+int mod spells...
then I modify every spell from 1st-5th and some (detect magic, speak with___, some others based on when it isn't game breaking they are not "use a spell slot" but once preped (taking up a prep slot) useable at will. Some (especially ones that there are better choices for at levels) can be used 1/ short rest or with a spell slot. Others just need those spellsots.
Example: a wizard at 5th level can prep 8 spells and has 3 1st level slots and 2 2nd level slots per day. they prep Mage Armor (that can be used at will on self but costs a slot to use as touch), Shield (spell slot) Detect Magic (at will), Comp language (1/short rest then spell slots), Tasha's laugh (spell slot)
Augury (at will special: doesn't work if repeated too soon or too similar qustion) Cloud of Daggers (1/short rest then spell slot) Scorching ray (spell slot)
then I would reintroduce the idea of rituals from 4e... spells anyone can learn but wizards learn better but require skill prof and sometimes skill checks and take time (any spell with a 1 minute or more casting time MIGHT go here)
then I would take every spell over 5th level and use the warlock Mystic Arcanum idea... starting at 12th level you pick 1 6th level spell you can use once per day all the way up... so 14th 1 7th 16th 1 8th and 18th 1 9th with 20th level capstone being a free recharge as a 1 minute quick ritual of any 1 mystic arcanum you have used...
the whole artificer build magic item things, and the sorcerer metamagic and warlock invocations I would rework and merg into specal 'arcane secrets' you get at levels like you get those things... so you can make a meta magic wizard or a crafter wizard ect...
I would scale back how many spells have concentration (hey if at 15th level you cast stone skin it should last the hole duration) BUT I would also bring back some of the old 2e draw backs (haste ageing ect)
finally I would give more cantrips so a wizard MIGHT end up with like 10 by 20th level...
a 20th level wizard with 25 preped spells plus 10 cantrips but only 3 1st level-4th level and only 2 5th level slots... BUT 1 6th spell (not changeable by day but maybe at level up) 1 7th 1 8th and 1 9th per day with the ability to recharge them would mean way less power but the ability to customize would be amazing.
The wizard class should give a different play style/experience compared to other full casters, as different from cleric/druid/sorcerer/bard as warlock is from all the rest.
Making their spells more powerful, but also take longer to cast and interruptible, would go a long way towards restoring this difference in play. Even war wizards shouldn't be frolicking on the front lines among multiple enemies. Having a wizard should change the whole tactics of the party. When one of their spells can make the difference, then the party should have a short-term objective to make sure the wizard casts it successfully instead of blithely doing their own thing.
Too many spell slots is a problem for all full casters; the solution is not specific to wizards. But a solution could be to create a spell progression that maxes out at 14 slots and slides over to higher levels:
L5: 4 3 2
L6: 3 4 3
L7: 3 4 3 2
L8: 2 3 4 3
L9: 2 3 4 3 2
L10: 0 2 3 4 3
L11: 0 2 3 4 3 2
L12: 0 2 2 3 4 3
...
(As an aside, cantrips would be more interesting and less of a fallback action if at 5th level, instead of an extra damage die, their rider became more reliable--disadvantage on saving throw, longer duration effect, etc.)
Dude. I was responding to someone who felt that various classes could use more or less at various points of their career. Heck, my points were conditional, not even saying that I agreed, but that if one wants changes, where and how to put them.
If one doesn't want that change, then don't make it. Have a nice day.
