D&D 5E How would YOU nerf the wizard? +

[CleverNickName]

I don't find that per round initiative slows the game down appreciably.

Especially true on Roll20, where Initiative is just a macro click. I push a button and all tokens reroll initiative, then the tracker re-sorts in descending order. It takes less than a second. (shrug)

 

[Warpiglet-7]

oh god no, D&D combat is already a slowfest, it does not need to be any slower.

players dont know what to do on their expected turn half of the time, this is pure chaos. Unless we all play champion fighters.

You could have people wire their actions down ahead of time and then reveal and resolve in order.

Maybe if it’s a big change they spend their reaction?

 

[Voadam]

You could have people wire their actions down ahead of time and then reveal and resolve in order.

I think writing your action down each round would slow the round down more as you add the time of people writing their actions down.

Then you also have the problems of what happens when their action is negated by actions by others before them.

"I cast a touch range buff spell on the rogue next to me."

"You mean the rogue who dashed away out of range on his turn right before you?"

Can they then revise their action or just waste the round (and spell?) in the fog of war?

 

[Undrave]

Not to pick on you, but that is EXACTLY what I don't want. Randomness. Crippling costs. Limited choices. The OSR wizard classes tolerated that because they knew in ten levels, if they lived, they would be gods and the game would revolve around them. I would rather flatten the curve than rely on crapshoot mechanics or be useful for exactly one encounter.

I also think if your nerfing makes the Wizard more fiddly, or complicated, or adds extra accounting, you're going in the wrong direction. I don't care if you think cantrip are the second coming of Tiamat, I'm not tracking their daily usages on top of existing spell slots.

there's theoretically always 20 'turns' in iniative order right? even if most of them aren't played out, given you roll a d20 to determine your iniative, i think it would be a decent nerf if most default spell 'casting times' were delayed in iniative by something like [10+spell level-casting mod] turns, it'd give the rest of the battlefield a chance to react before the spell takes effect be that taking cover or trying to disrupt the caster.

Maybe simplify it a little? You start casting your spell on your usual initiative (your speed should always become zero when you start casting so you can't move afterward) and then your spell's effect activates after a certain number of other creatures (allies or enemies) have taken actions equal to the spell level, with cantrips being 0. If you get hit you need a concentration check not to fail to cast. Crucially, upcasting does not change the timing so it becomes a more strategically important action. Also this counting could carry over from round to round if you're at the bottom of the initiative order.

So you start casting your fireball and maybe your ally gets time to move out of the way or the enemies get a shot at scattering.

 

[CleverNickName]

So you start casting your fireball and maybe your ally gets time to move out of the way or the enemies get a shot at scattering.

I don't remember what game it was--or maybe it was D&D and I can't remember which edition?--but I played a game where spells didn't resolve until the start of your next turn. So if you cast Fireball in Round 1, it doesn't detonate until your turn begins in Round 2...so your opponents have a whole round to dispel it, move out of the blast radius, incapacitate/interrupt you, etc.

If you're talking about nerfing the wizard, this would be a pretty significant nerf in 5E.

EDIT: It wasn't D&D, or even a TTRPG. It was a turn-based Final Fantasy game on Nintendo. Gods, I'm old.

EDIT 2: I guess this isn't entirely unprecedented in 5E. Some spells already work like this (such as Moonbeam).

 

[Voadam]

3e had spells with 1 round casting times that would only come into effect at the beginning of the caster's next turn and could be interrupted by a hit before then requiring concentration checks. Notably all the summon monster and animal spells.

"A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed."

If you wanted to nerf certain combat spells in 5e giving them a similar casting mechanic is an option.

 

[Reynard]

3e had spells with 1 round casting times that would only come into effect at the beginning of the caster's next turn and could be interrupted by a hit before then requiring concentration checks. Notably all the summon monster and animal spells.

"A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed."

If you wanted to nerf certain combat spells in 5e giving them a similar casting mechanic is an option.

I had forgotten about those. That is a good easy fix. Make it all spells.

 

[NotAYakk]

Gritty rests, and buff short rests a bit.

You can bandage wounds (spend HD) over 10 minutes.

A nights rest regains 1/2 of your HD amd a level of exhaustion. You can also burn HD to recover attribute damage etc.

A long rest (a week in safety) regains spells and all HD.

Maximize HP from HD (martial JP advantage grows). Double weapon dice damage, so a greatsword does 4d6. Scale up class feature damage dice as well.

Add in "extended casting": casting a one action spell for 2-3 rounds to deal 2x damage dice and disadvantage on saving throws. While casting you can be interrupted by damage.

 

[Remathilis]

I also think if your nerfing makes the Wizard more fiddly, or complicated, or adds extra accounting, you're going in the wrong direction. I don't care if you think cantrip are the second coming of Tiamat, I'm not tracking their daily usages on top of existing spell slots.

Exactly. The general spellcasting system is robust and fine, but it needs adjusting to the level of power and amount uses per day. anything more is gumming up the works with fiddly-ness and minigames.

 

[Lanefan]

I think writing your action down each round would slow the round down more as you add the time of people writing their actions down.

Agreed. Simple verbal declaration should be good enough.

Then you also have the problems of what happens when their action is negated by actions by others before them.

"I cast a touch range buff spell on the rogue next to me."

"You mean the rogue who dashed away out of range on his turn right before you?"

Can they then revise their action or just waste the round (and spell?) in the fog of war?

Either waste the spell or resolve it on a different target within reach (obviously, "self" is always an option).

Then again, if the Rogue knows you're casting a spell on her then surely she'd hold position until the spell resolves, and then move away...right?