How many of you use the Identify material component?

[IceBear]

Also, you gotta tell me, are they EVER planning on cleaning up the complicated action system? And moreover, what were you playtesters THINKING when you approved it??

I don't find it that complicated at all.

Aggeman, it's my impression that you're just playtesting the ELHb correct? Were you involved in the core rules playtesting?

IceBear

 

[reapersaurus]

We use the rules as written, and have had no problem (approaching 8th lvl campaign now).

Identify is cheap, and gives you one piece of knowledge on the item...enough for potions and minor magic items.

How do you figure it's cheap?
All of you that say you're playing by the rules are using 100 gp's PER SPELL, right?
That doesn't seem rather high for a 1st level spell?

And how do you figure it's cheap for potions and minor magic items?
The price per Identify spell runs from 200%! of the price of the actual magic item to 5% for minor (2000 gp) items.

I'd say that is an unacceptably inflationary means of sucking money from a party, but maybe that's what some of you like about the spell?

How do you get around the (IMO) fact that it is too expnsive to Identify minor magic items and too much at low levels to use Identify?

 

[IanB]

Identifying potions

I don't see why anyone would ever use the Identify spell for a potion anyway, when you could use the Alchemy skill instead; 1 gp per attempt, DC 25.

 

[The Sigil]

My solution...

My standard Modus Operandi is indeed to require the Pearls... in some cases finding a pearl just to CAST the identify spell can be somewhat of an adventure...

But I note that my party was quite clever at figuring out their weapons' base enchantment bonus... I never told them a creature's AC, I just told them to roll and I would tell them "hit" or "miss." I mentally added the +1 or +2 from the weapon to the roll.

After a few rounds of combat, the players can reverse-engineer the enhancement bonus... "well, I hit on a 27 and Bob missed on a 28 and we know he isn't using magic - so the opponent's AC must be at least 29, so my weapon must be more than +1 (because that only raises me to 28)... but I missed on a 25 so it can't be as high as +4 (or I would have rolled a 29)... so my weapon is either +2 or +3 and I'll be able to figure out which next combat." Qualities such as flaming or shocking burst are fairly apparent also.

So identifying weapons wasn't too bad a problem once the party was willing to use them a few times. The alchemy skill to ID potions was used frequently as well. Usually, a party sees a wand/staff being used against them, so they have some idea what is in the thing (especially wands), so that's not a problem. If you saw the sorcerer waving a wand and launching fireballs from it, you can pretty much conclude it's a wand of fireballs. Obviously, scrolls just need a Read Magic spell.

That leaves armor, wondrous items, rods and rings as the types of items the party needs an Identify spell for... in all of these cases, the identify spell is not too bad as a percentage of total cost... and remember that armor can be reverse-engineered in the same was as weapons, though that also requires them to reverse-engineer a creature's Attack Bonus first - trickier but possible. Admittedly, the above assumes that the party is willing to try to use magic items in order to figure out what they are. Worked pretty well for me, but of course YMMV.

For sake of simplicity, once the characters (a) cast identify or (b) could tell me what an item was based on using it (or seeing it used), I confirmed at the end of the session and let them write it down... though I let them write down incorrect guesses, especially as it related to extra abilities (see below). I didn't track all their items, only the ones they had not yet figured out. However, the +1 undead bane sword remained a "+1 sword" on their character sheets for about three sessions - until they noticed that it hit better against undead than it "should have" based on a +1 bonus. With a little bit of "experimentation" they figured out that it was undead bane as well

--The Sigil

 

[Darkness]

Uhm, how? Clerics still have to do material components for spells, so I don't see how it's free...?

Easy - they don't. Or, more specifically, clerics don't require material components, but rather just a divine focus, to cast identify. A "divine focus" is, of course, the cleric's holy symbol - and since it is used as a "focus," it isn't consumed but rather can be used an infinity number of times.
(Still, they don't get it as a regular spell, but only as a Domain spell of the Magic Domain - and it is a 2nd-level spell for them instead of 1st.)

How do you figure it's cheap?
All of you that say you're playing by the rules are using 100 gp's PER SPELL, right?
...

And how do you figure it's cheap for potions and minor magic items?
The price per Identify spell runs from 200%! of the price of the actual magic item to 5% for minor (2000 gp) items.

With one identify spell, you can identify a number of items equal to your caster level. Thus, your calculations here are only correct for a 1st-level-caster or if you have only one item that you want to idenfity.


BTW, FYI: There's another possible way of using identify: A character with 6 levels in the Loremaster prestige class can use identify at will and without any cost.

 

[Larcen]

I don't find it that complicated at all.
...

No? Well, let me express what my concerns are then...

>>> Rant mode is now ON <<<

First, here are the actions listed in the PHB glossary under "action":

1) Standard Action
2) Partial Action
3) Move-equivalent Action
4) Free Action
5) Full Round Action (not to be confused with 1 full round)

And just for laughs, here are some of the actions listed not in the glossary, but in the index instead:

6) Ready Action
7) Refocus Action
8) Full Attack Action

So just off the top of my head what we have here are 8 (!) different actions so far. As there others I missed?

Why the heck are their so many???

Now some of these are actions dependant on others, some of them affect your initiative, some of them cause AoOs, some you can take a 5' step with, some you can't, etc, etc, etc...

Sure, we have all learned to make sense of it all. But honestly, take a step back and look at this from the perspective of a newbie, or someone who just wants to have fun and not worry about these rule semantics.

I am sure we have all seen the many posts people have left on the boards asking about how this action or that action works. I have even seen a post were some guy wanted to do something, a Bull Rush or some such, but couldn't do it the way he was describing it to his DM using his limited knowledge of the action system. So in response someone else posted something to the affect of: "Ah, but had you announced to your dm THIS action instead of THAT one, and in THIS order, then yeah, your PC can do all that in one round." Argh. The poor guy just wanted to describe, in roleplaying terms, what the heck his character was doing, instead he got sucked into all this legalize.

Maybe I am just a little bit slow, but the first time I read the following definition in the glossary, I had to stop, go back, and think "what the hell did they just say?" Take a moment to read it to yourself now, but again do it with fresh eyes, like those of a someone just starting to learn the game. (For best affect, read it out loud. )

=====
Move-equivalent action: An action that takes the place of moving at normal speed. A character can take a move-equivalent action instead of moving at normal speed in a standard action or as a partial action, or two move-equivalent actions instead of a double-move.
=====

This is just one example. Sure, if you go back and reread it a few times it makes sense, but my point is why all this unnecessary complication? Is this the best system they could come up with? There has to be a simpler way. If you don't have a problem using the system as is, I would guess it's only because you, like all of us, have survived the learning curve and are now living with it. But that does NOT make it a clean, simple, efficient, intuitive system.

Can I have an "Amen!", brothers and sisters?

>>> Rant mode is now OFF <<<

Er….sorry everyone. This has been a pet peeve of mine since I first read 3E.

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread…

 

[Kershek]

Oops, I voted the wrong answer. I misinterpreted "No" to mean no changes necessary from the PHB rules. Oops. I guess I wanted to vote "Yes' like most of the others have.

 

[burdett]

We use a variant.

IMC the Sorcerer class does NOT use any material components.

The Sorcerer has to burn a small amount of XP (amount based upon the GP value of the material component normally used) when casting spells that require a material component valued at 100 GP or more.

 

[Bonedagger]

In the case of a command word... Just have it written on the item. Maybe in some old language.

The potion maker might also forget what the blue potion next to the green in the back of the closet do so it is probably written on it.

That combined with Detect Magics ability to determine the shool of magic will make identify little needed. (By the way... If it's just a normal +2 dagger the party can still compare it with their +1 dagger and see that the +2 has a stronger aura)

 

[Darkness]

First, here are the actions listed in the PHB glossary under "action":

1) Standard Action
2) Partial Action
3) Move-equivalent Action
4) Free Action
5) Full Round Action (not to be confused with 1 full round)

And just for laughs, here are some of the actions listed not in the glossary, but in the index instead:

6) Ready Action
7) Refocus Action
8) Full Attack Action

So just off the top of my head what we have here are 8 (!) different actions so far. As there others I missed?

Why the heck are their so many???

You're confusing something here:

The first five things that you listed are indeed the different action types; but the other three are just specific examples of actions within these types (Ready is a Standard Action, while Refocus and Full Attack are both Full Round Actions).

Thus, there are only five action types (but see below ).
The number of possible actions within these types, though, is only limited by your imagination (e.g., Attack, Coup de Grace, Full Attack, Light a Torch, Open a Door, Ready, Refocus, etc.; see PHB, p. 128 for a rather large table of possible actions - or just use your imagination then try to find an action type that fits the effect of what you want to do ).

And yes, you indeed missed one of the action types: Not an Action (PHB, p. 121).

Peace,
Darkness