DM Question: How can I keep my players from taking 3 days to check a room?

[Li Shenron]

I think Thanee's suggestion are the perfect summary on this subject. If I may add another idea, USE BONUSES! That is, for a hidden door/compartment/item, set the DC high enough that is not beatable even with a 20, but only if the PC is aided or win a circumstance (or whatever) bonus from magic or from winning another check or solving a little trick via roleplay.

BTW, I think you CAN take 20 on searching for traps, not on disabling traps, this has been debated in our game, but to avoid complications, my players choose to use take 20 only rarely (it's worse for them, but they like facing tough games!).

 

[IceBear]

Yes, you can Take 20 on searching for traps as there is no penalty for failure - not finding a trap doesn't set it off - unlike with Disable Device. Remember, as much as Take 20 makes it seem like you're poking and prodding everywhere, the search skill only requires you to be within 10ft. Thus, you can't argue that the actual activity of searching sets of the trap if you don't even have to touch it.

I also agree with Thanee's post, and I also use suggestions like above. I will often set the DC of something to be higher than the highest roll a PC could achieve and then put in clues to give circumstance bonuses to then make it achieveable. I also give bonuses if the players give a good, accurate detail of what and how their searching - ie there is a poster bed in the room with a wand hidden in a secret compartment in one of the posts. If the PCs just search the bed, then the DC might be higher than what is possible for the highest searcher to find. If they say they are searching the posts then the DC might become 15.

IceBear

 

[Gromm]

For me it depends on the situation. If its a dungeon something is bound to encounter them in the course of 13 some odd hours.
Have an encounter from the next room come looking for them, and attack them while they are searching. Or just don't have anything there for them, maybe they'll get bored.
Generally having a storyline connected to the situation helps alot too. If they need to be in City X on such and such a date, they can't afford to spend a day searching a room. Or just make a really big dungeon with lots of empty rooms and have them sealed in by a work crew of goblins and entombed alive.

 

[doktorstick]

The problem with wandering monsters and other inhabitants is that the PCs can use this to their advantage. It can't be the only solution. Wandering monsters should not give experience as per a previous poster's suggestion otherwise its a blessing in disguise to players.

As for the "creature next door", the non-searching PCs can setup a defensive position prior to the rogue's "Take 20" search. The monster next door (or wandering for that matter) walks into a well-defended room. Monster annhilated.

Then enter the D&D cheese factor. The DM increases the difficulty of the wandering monsters or keeps the hordes coming. Pay no mind that tens of monsters are "discovering" the dungeon, four-levels underground. Nor the fact that the PCs, after several room searches, no longer have adversaries in the other sections of the dungeon... because they all came-a-calling.

Player1: I "Take 20" to search.
DM (rolling a few dice): A pair of destrachen wander into the room.
Player1: We cleared this level already.
Player2: Apparently not. Either the destrachen passed the Trap of Doom (TM), threw rose petals to activate the portal, and then climbed down the harrowing Chute-o-Death (TM) to get here; or we missed something.
Player1: You're right! Let's "Take 20" searching this entire level.

Cheers,
/ds

 

[IceBear]

Wandering monsters aren't THE solution. They just provide a nudge for the players to move along. If the game world (or more importantly, the plot) isn't going to notice the PCs being MIA for three days while they search a room, then let them. In my case, if they did that things happen in the world that they can no longer influence (ie, the evil lich that they were seeking to destroy has raised an army of undead which is now marching on their home town, or the orcish chieftain has reinforced his garrison so the players will have a much tougher time than when they had the element of surprise, etc). It doesn't have to be something that breaks the suspension of disbelief, it just has to be something that shows that the game world is dynamic.

As thanee said in his post, "Let them" search for 3 hours. Sometimes there is no logical reason to prevent them from doing so. All this thread is trying to provide are ways to discourage them from doing it - ALL the time.

IceBear

 

[doktorstick]

All this thread is trying to provide are ways to discourage them from doing it - ALL the time.

I appreciate you reminding us what the thread is about. Apparently I did not realize that explaining the pitfalls of wandering monsters, or "monsters next door," was counter to this thread. Nor did I realize that it was bad forum etiquette to provide an expanded explanation of the consequences in choosing a particular solution.

My apologies.

 

[kreynolds]

I appreciate you reminding us what the thread is about. Apparently I did not realize that explaining the pitfalls of wandering monsters, or "monsters next door," was counter to this thread. Nor did I realize that it was bad forum etiquette to provide an expanded explanation of the consequences in choosing a particular solution.

My apologies.

Yep. This guy is new.

Relax, doktorstick. IceBear wasn't attacking you, nor was he being rude, nor was he being condecending, nor was he being cruel. IceBear doesn't do that. That's my job, and he knows that.

Your comments are appreciated, and I'm sure I speak for at least a few others when I say that.

 

[IceBear]

I appreciate you reminding us what the thread is about. Apparently I did not realize that explaining the pitfalls of wandering monsters, or "monsters next door," was counter to this thread. Nor did I realize that it was bad forum etiquette to provide an expanded explanation of the consequences in choosing a particular solution.

My apologies.

Sorry, I guess I misread the tone of your post...thought you were saying that using wandering monsters was a dumb move for a DM to make (based on your exaggerated example). I just wanted to clarify *to newbies who may be viewing the thread* that wandering monsters are more a side effect of this problem and not the final solution, in my opinion.

BTW - I don't think he's new, new as I'm sure I've seen that nick before (maybe another forum)

IceBear

 

[Thanee]

Another idea to discourage them, would be to let them - after they return to town - get an information that something happened meanwhile, what they REALLY wanted to attend to.

Maybe some adventuring group was needed for a really lucrative job, but some others already stepped in.

Maybe some wandering merchant with really nice magical stuff was in town, but moved along a week or so ago.

Something like this, a nice little jab just to remind them that time matters sometimes!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Uller]

As for the "creature next door", the non-searching PCs can setup a defensive position prior to the rogue's "Take 20" search. The monster next door (or wandering for that matter) walks into a well-defended room. Monster annhilated.

And the PCs expend some more resources. Or a smart monster that is outclassed by the PCs will know it and go to alert his friends. Imagine you're a monster...maybe a lowly goblin, eeking out your life in a goblin cave complex. You are on your way out with your crew for your shift of looting, murdering and pillaging.

You are at the back of the crew as they enter the room that guards the entrance to the lair when suddenly you are all ambushed by some adventurers. Before you can react, a big warrior cleaves through the front rank of your comrades and seriously wounds your leader. Then a nasty elf with a bow puts a shaft through his neck, finishing him off. You get a glimpse of a shorter humaniod who appeared to be searching some furniture slink into the shadows out of sight. The rest of your crew surges forward into what you assume is certain doom...what are you going to do? Rush forward to your death or run back down the corridor and sound the alarm? At some point the goblin leadership will become aware of the PCs and organize a counter attack(especially if the leadership is something more intelligent and sinister than goblins!).

Then enter the D&D cheese factor. The DM increases the difficulty of the wandering monsters or keeps the hordes coming.

It seems cheesier that the party can slaughter the residents of one room with swords and fireballs spells without alerting the other denizens of the lair or that the evil plot that the PCs hope to foil never comes to fruition while the PCs take all day to get through one room.

Player1: I "Take 20" to search.
DM (rolling a few dice): A pair of destrachen wander into the room.
Player1: We cleared this level already.
Player2: Apparently not. Either the destrachen passed the Trap of Doom (TM), threw rose petals to activate the portal, and then climbed down the harrowing Chute-o-Death (TM) to get here; or we missed something.
Player1: You're right! Let's "Take 20" searching this entire level.

Cheers,
/ds

Apparently you missed when I said to encourage your players to save their searches for when they have cleared the dungeon(time permitting). Usually, if the PCs have completely cleared all the encounters of a given site-based adventure, I allow them to go back and find anything they may have missed if they want.

Also...why did you get so bent out of shape at IceBear? He was only refuting your points and was being polite, IMO. Your first post seemed far more rude and condicending than anything he said. Me thinks it is time to ready my vial of acid...