Disarming a Bow with a Melee Weapon?

[Conaill]

So then an Archer Can use his bow with both hands?

If you honestly don't know the answer to this, then I'm not going to waste my time any further trying to enlighten you...

 

[Metalsmith]

If you honestly don't know the answer to this, then I'm not going to waste my time any further trying to enlighten you...

I dunno, mabey I can enlighten you instead.
If you let the fighter weild a Large weapon with 2 hands during his attack segment and then hold it in one hand so he can deflect arrows with the other later in the initiave round, Whats your problem with the Archer using 2 hands to shoot the bow and when finished grip the bow firmly with both hands after firing to prevent people from trying to grab it? You let the fighter in the example "change" his grip.

We'll drop the whole Magic Arrows thing mainly because I realize how insane it sounds and I agreed with you all along. I only got hung up on it because we have a rules lawer in the group I DM for and I'm getting tired of wanting to tell him to "Cram It" and I wanted something a little more solid than "Magic Arrows dont make sense". I could hear in my mind, "But it's an attack roll and Magick arrows stack on attack rolls!".


Metalsmith.

 

[Xarlen]

Several?, If you count your post before you even posted it, I count 2 times. I didn't know about the Sage's rule, and I had thought since bows are listed under Martial Weapons Ranged that they were considered weapons and not attended objects, silly me.

Yes, several. Hong, then Conail. But, there were two points in my post: The magical arrows was rebuffed several times.

Unless he shoots you with the gun and that stops you from effectively disarming them. I think Failing your opposed attack roll is penalty enough without allowing the Archer/Gun Bunny to do damage to you.

Then it's your fault for failing your roll. Really, the gunbunny/archer doesn't recieve an AoO. If he shoots at me, I AoO him and disarm/sunder his weapon on the AoO, or trip him. I don't think that 'Failing your opposed attack roll is penalty' so much as 'not hitting someone' is a penalty.

Unless he's parrying with the arrow, I don't see it happening.

And, he can't use both hands to get a two handed grip because attacking a bow is attacking an object, ala the Sage's ruling.

 

[Conaill]

Sure you can grab the bow with both hands after shooting with it. Of course, you would have to announce so each time, at the end of your own turn. And the attacker is likely to go for a Sunder instead when he sees you hugging your bow like that.

Does this mean you agree with me that - at most - the bow should count as an improvised melee weapon (-4, ofsetting the +4 for two hands) for the opposed attack? After all, there's no way you could use it as a bow when you're holding the body of the bow with two hands...

 

[Conaill]

Now that I finally got around to checking the Sage's ruling on this, let me just repost the text in the FAQ on this subject:

From the official DnD FAQ
Normally you need to make an opposed attack roll to strike a foe's weapon or shield, but if the item you're striking is not a melee weapon or a shield, just use the rules for striking a held, carried, or worn object (pages 135 and 136 in the Player's Handbook). Again, you'd normally trigger an attack of opportunity for striking the foe's equipment, but a foe armed with a ranged weapon doesn't threaten you.

This can be a very effective tactic against opponents armed with bows. A longbow, composite longbow, or heavy crossbow has an Armor Class of 14 (base 10, -1 for size, +5 for being a held object) plus the wielder's Dexterity bonus and whatever deflection bonus the wielder might have, which makes it a fairly easy target. A shortbow, short composite bow, light crossbow, or repeating crossbow has an Armor Class of 15, which is same as a longbow, but they no size adjustment because these weapons are Medium-size. Bows have hardness 5 and 2 hit points (just like spears), crossbows are tougher (hardness 10, 5 hit points).

I do still think it's possible to switch to holding your bow as a club after firing it. In which case you could take AoO's with it, and it would follow the normal Disarm rules. But if you actually *use* your bow as a melee weapon like this, I would likely assign some chance of ruining it...

 

[Metalsmith]

Yes, but truestrike + disarm can work wonders.

Dear god! How did I miss this?

Next time when you reply to me use a bigger FONT. I must have rolled past this post quite a few times before I understood the simplicity of it.

1. Potions of True Strike are Cheap!
2. I dont have to use Absurdly High level guards to challenge an 11th level Archer.
3. Gives a quick fix untill someone points me to the "Sage" ruling or tells me where to find it.

Metalsmith

 

[Conaill]

3. Gives a quick fix untill someone points me to the "Sage" ruling or tells me where to find it.

SEE ABOVE!

It's in the official DnD FAQ, which is more or less a collection of Sage rulings. The quote above is from page 32 of the latest version (5/10/02), which you can find at http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DnDFAQv05102002.zip

 

[Metalsmith]

SEE ABOVE!

It's in the official DnD FAQ, which is more or less a collection of Sage rulings. The quote above is from page 32 of the latest version (5/10/02), which you can find at http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DnDFAQv05102002.zip

Thanks!

See, I type slow, and I was at work, so when it takes me 20 minutes to compose and type a post sometimes people reply while I'm still writing. Cut me some slack, K?

The same goes with the several replies thing.


Metalsmith

 

[Negative Zero]

dunno if this has been mentioned before (not really in the mood to read all of this) but i'd say that defending against a disarm while wielding a bow would require you to use your STR not your DEX. you're making an attack roll yes, but you're not actually attacking with the weapon. (same principle behind not allowing PBS.)

just my two coppers. if this has been brought up before, feel free to ignore or berate me, which ever you feel more inclined to at the time

~NegZ

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

dunno if this has been mentioned before (not really in the mood to read all of this) but i'd say that defending against a disarm while wielding a bow would require you to use your STR not your DEX. you're making an attack roll yes, but you're not actually attacking with the weapon. (same principle behind not allowing PBS.)

Yup. It is really an improved melee weapon. Str mod. -4 for improvised weapon.

I think the Sage is right that treating it as an object is even better or you start getting into argument where desperate PCs want to use a wand or rod as an improved weapon because it gives better survival odds.