WotC Bard is the biggest mystery in the 5.75e PHB

[Nikosandros]

So it was as much as the shift from 3.0 to 3.5? Honestly?
Did the spell list get rearranged?
Did skills vanish?
Did you now suddenly have to use a grid to determine cover?
Did suddenly the rule 0 first page of the DMG got scrapped?

Edit: just looked it up... Rule 0 was actually replaced by "playing on the battle grid".
That was the beginning of the near end of D&D. And you compare tasha to it?

I agree. From what we've seen so far, the changes seem far less than from 3.0 to 3.5.

 

[Parmandur]

I don't even know if there is such a need to over-haul the bard basic class (some of the sub-classes might use a bit of a touch-up). IMHO, it is a versatile and fun class.

Well, exactly: they have years of data on how people like the base 5E Bard and all ot's parts, they tested some changes, and now theybare compiling a final version.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I agree. From what we've seen so far, the changes seem far less than from 3.0 to 3.5.

Yes. The important thing is the mind set.
And in a recent inteview, Jeremy Crawford said, that the biggest achievement of 5e was going away from the battle grid. Which was really introduced in 3.5. Not 3e.
So 3.5 was where D&D took the wrong exit. If you want to reach casual gamers that is.

Some things started in 3e. Like having hard codes rules to build monsters like player characters (not a bad idea, but one that made DMing too much work).

 

[Henadic Theologian]

I don't even know if there is such a need to over-haul the bard basic class (some of the sub-classes might use a bit of a touch-up). IMHO, it is a versatile and fun class.

A lot of folks loved the version of the Bard in the last UA and felt it was the best Bard ever made, so we will see what influence that has on the final version.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

A lot of folks loved the version of the Bard in the last UA and felt it was the best Bard ever made, so we will see what influence that has on the final version.

I love both the phb and the last UA version. I think the new magical secrets are better than the old.

I am still routing for the bard spell list to be 4 schools (illusion, enchantment, divination, transmutation) of all lists. And then magical secrets to learn a few more spells.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Does a Sorcerer taking the cleric spell list step on the toes of the Divine Soul subclass?

Yes! And that's the elegance of it (in my eyes) -- it means you don't need a Divine Soul subclass.

 

[Nikosandros]

A lot of folks loved the version of the Bard in the last UA and felt it was the best Bard ever made, so we will see what influence that has on the final version.

Personally, I was not too fond of the UA version, but I admit that I didn't vote in the poll...

 

[Remathilis]

I'm not expecting a lot of huge changes in the other classes compared to their last UA appearance, just tweaks, but the exception is the Bard because after the last UA reveal where you can pick your spell list/power source, they yanked out the Power Source lists that trait depended on.

So now Bard is the big class wild card in the next PHB, and it drives me nuts not knowing what to expect with it. Really it should have been in the very last PHB UA honestly.

What changes to the Bard do you think they have made?

Are they still just Arcane casters again, or maybe get a basic bard spell list then choose from the Cleric, Sorcerer, Druid Spell lists?

Any other none spell list changes to Bard or its subclasses are you expecting?

I suspect that the bard will look a lot like it's 2014 version with some UA inspired tweaks and quality of life changes (plus the two new subs). Honestly, that's what most of the classes are getting now.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I suspect that the bard will look a lot like it's 2014 version with some UA inspired tweaks and quality of life changes (plus the two new subs). Honestly, that's what most of the classes are getting now.

Which is obviously what people wanted.
And I do agree. This is not the time to fix what is not broken.

Quality of life is key here.

 

[Remathilis]

Which is obviously what people wanted.
And I do agree. This is not the time to fix what is not broken.

Quality of life is key here.

YMMV on the definition of broken here. I like the 5e bard (though it's base spell list without secrets is a little lacking) but I feel they had chances to fix pain points for other classes and didn't. However, what's done is done.