Bard is spoiled!

[666Sinner666]

What worries me most is the multi classing ability of the bard. I'll reserve judgment on whether or not the bard is balanced based on how the multi classing works. Having four powers as a half-elf not of your class is a big advantage and I worry that it will eliminate clerics as viable healers since at level four, ignoring all other feats, you could accomplish this. I also worry that this is a step toward bringing back the multi classing brokenness that was 3.5.

We shall see though.

 

[WalterKovacs]

What worries me most is the multi classing ability of the bard. I'll reserve judgment on whether or not the bard is balanced based on how the multi classing works. Having four powers as a half-elf not of your class is a big advantage and I worry that it will eliminate clerics as viable healers since at level four, ignoring all other feats, you could accomplish this. I also worry that this is a step toward bringing back the multi classing brokenness that was 3.5.

We shall see though.

Compared to clerics you are losing a 1d6 per healing surge [because it's adding charisma vs. adding wisdom]. You can get two ... ONCE PER DAY ... healing abilities through multiclasses ... and that involves putting 13's into non-primary stats. You can get wizard, warlock and paladin at-wills and have them be good [assuming an int/cha pumped build using the dilletante power to pick up the paladin]. That's 3 "extra" encounter powers that are out of class at-wills ... which don't really help you heal that much. Not suewhat the fourth is ... unless you are talking about a single power swap of an encounter power [that you can only take once] ... but even then you are getting a 1 for 1 change like anyone else would.

If you go int/cha based you can easily multi into:

Wizard
Warlock
Swordmage
Spellscared
Paladin [if you dip a bit into str]

Anything else is going to require you use non-Int/cha effects, and having a 13 in a non-optimal skill to get the main feat ... and even then, you still only have three power swap feats. [They may make some "special" bard paragon that works like Eternal Wanderer/normal paragon multiclass to get more "out of class" powers].

A bard multi'd into Cleric AND Warlord compared to a normal wisdom based cleric ... I'd still go with laser cleric as the better "pure" healer. The bard works well to fill the roll of a missing controller in addition to being a solid healer. [Multi'ing into both wizard and warlock can definitely improve the controller aspects of the bard]. If the original classes were better in all situations ... the new classes would be a waste. The bard seems like a good option for a party that is going without a wizard, and doesn't really need a TON of healing. As a second healer he can really lean towards his controller aspects. In a smaller group, covering two roles makes him more useful.

 

[sukael]

What I'm thinking is that a half-elf paladin with that +1d6 barbarian power and the Ranger and Rogue multiclass feats could pump out a lot of spot damage 1/encounter.

 

[WalterKovacs]

What I'm thinking is that a half-elf paladin with that +1d6 barbarian power and the Ranger and Rogue multiclass feats could pump out a lot of spot damage 1/encounter.

True... but it would require you to have at least 13 dex, wield a small blade, get combat advantage, spend a minor action, and have a very good strength [which neither helps the bard class, nor gets a racial bonus from the half-elf]. It's possible ... but you are only really adding a bit compared to say ... a barbarian multiclassed into a rogue. Or heck ... a half-elf ranger multi'd into Rogue with the barbarian power for diletante, etc ...

 

[Ibixat]

Compared to clerics you are losing a 1d6 per healing surge [because it's adding charisma vs. adding wisdom]. You can get two ... ONCE PER DAY ... healing abilities through multiclasses ... and that involves putting 13's into non-primary stats. You can get wizard, warlock and paladin at-wills and have them be good [assuming an int/cha pumped build using the dilletante power to pick up the paladin]. That's 3 "extra" encounter powers that are out of class at-wills ... which don't really help you heal that much. Not suewhat the fourth is ... unless you are talking about a single power swap of an encounter power [that you can only take once] ... but even then you are getting a 1 for 1 change like anyone else would.

If you go int/cha based you can easily multi into:

Wizard
Warlock
Swordmage
Spellscared
Paladin [if you dip a bit into str]

I'm guessing you could also MC into artificer once that's official as well.

 

[LightPhoenix]

My supposition for the multiple Multiclassing Feats isn't so much the actual multiclassing part; after all, you still can only take the power swap feats once, as someone above mentioned. Rather, it basically gives Bards the ability to take the MC feats as Skill Training Plus feats; why take SF: Thievery when you could take Sneak of the Shadows?

Alternatively, this may mesh up with the theory that we'll see additional multiclass feats for each class; thus a Bard could become more of a truly multi-classed character by taking all of the feats for one class.

 

[James McMurray]

why take SF: Thievery when you could take Sneak of the Shadows?

Because you don't have Dex 13?

 

[WalterKovacs]

Because you don't have Dex 13?

At that point ... why take thievery at all

The ranger is definitely the better example, or any divine class, since you'd be grabbing skills that aren't connected to the primary stat required to take the MC feat.

 

[James McMurray]

At that point ... why take thievery at all

True, but why limit your weapon selection for a couple extra d6 damage once per encounter? You may as well just stay untrained and take Jack of All Trades.

 

[WalterKovacs]

True, but why limit your weapon selection for a couple extra d6 damage once per encounter? You may as well just stay untrained and take Jack of All Trades.

Jack of all Trades is definitely a solid choice for Bards ... at which point any skill training is only a +2 boost.

Ultimately though, if the option is get training in thievery or get training in thievery AND have the option to sneak attack (and be considered a Rogue), there isn't really a reason to pick the first option OVER the second option. There may be a third option ... but that doesn't make it so the second option isn't better than the first option.

You can carry around a secondary weapon solely to use when you want to get the sneak attack off. You have the Dex for it ... so you could pick up Quick Draw.

In general, IF you meet the prereq for the MC feat, taking that feat instead of the skill training feat is better. It's getting the skill trained AND something else vs. getting just the skill trained.

There may be arguments against getting trained in the skill at all, or how useful it is to get the secondary benefit or being considered part of the class. But that is ignoring the fact that if someone wants to train in that skill, getting the MC feat gets them more than a simple skill training feat would.

Maybe a Dwarven Fighter is better off taking a greatsword or taking the feat for a fullblade instead of taking the dwarven weapon feat ... but that has nothing to do with dwarven weapon being strictly better than a proficiency feat for a single superior axe or hammer.