Are people still mad about . . .

[evildmguy]

I am curious about whether ENWorlders are still "fired up" about things from the past or if they laugh about it and don't care anymore? I am talking about threads, not edition wars, about something that they cared a lot to post about it when it first came out.

For example, before 4E was released, White Wolf started a "Graduate your game" idea that would give free Exalted books for 3.X DND PHs. There were people who weren't happy about it. Are you still unhappy? What is your reaction to it now?

With regards to the Graduate Your Game, I found it amusing then but am glad I didn't do it. I like the concepts and fluff of Exalted but think it would play better under DND 4E than it's rules because I find the system too complex. I have casual gamers and the thought of trying to get them to read all of the Charms as well as explain the combat system frightens me! Even I think it's a lot but I also haven't played it much. I'm sure if I did, I would get to know the names of the Charms and how they work better.

Anything else people remember? What is your reaction to it now?

edg

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

I wouldn't say I'm mad, but I remain bewildered and exasperated that WotC stopped selling the PDFs of the TSR-era material.

 

[havard]

I wouldn't say I'm mad, but I remain bewildered and exasperated that WotC stopped selling the PDFs of the TSR-era material.

Seconded. This is my biggest frustration with the RPG industry to this day.

I also used to be frustrate about edition wars, but I guess those days are over

Havard

 

[Caerin]

Seconded. This is my biggest frustration with the RPG industry to this day.

I also used to be frustrate about edition wars, but I guess those days are over

Havard

Thirded. Actually, pdfs in general, not just TSR.

 

[darjr]

Let me chip in on the whole pdf issue.

WotC, imho, the PDF's need to come back.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Thirded. Actually, pdfs in general, not just TSR.

Fourthed. Not to mention (oops) the extremely flimsy, dodgy excuse they exploited in timely fashion. That kinda made it *worse*, just for the record.

And the rest of the smokescreens, claims, etc. Yeesh. What a trail they left.

But, to get to the actual question posed by the OP, no, that stuff (and other things like it) don't bother me one bit, day to day. It hasn't crossed my mind whatsoever for quite some time. . . until this thread reminded me once more.

 

[Celebrim]

You'd have to list the things I've been fired up about. Almost by definition, if the things I'm no longer fired up about, I've forgotten that I ever really was fired up about it, but the things I'm most likely to remember are precisely those things that still raise a certain amount of passion with me.

Things I know I'm still 'fired up' about...

1) Killing the print editions of Dragon and Dungeon.

2) Completely dissing their own past products in their marketing of 4e. Related note, completely dissing the fans of their past products (anyone remember 'Cloudwatching'?)

3) Printing a 4e of a game which is utterly incompatible with the prior three editions of the game to the extent that is fundamentally a different game.

4) The ludicrous statements of some 4e defenders concerning what 4e would be like - I remember alot of arguments about how great the Skill Challenge system was going to be - and the absolute faith that they had in a product they'd never seen.

It was going to be out of the box a rules light, stream-lined, flexible, narrativist, minature optional system with very fast but still cinematic combat resolution but that also made resolving complex situations with skills as natural and as important as combat, and if you didn't believe that then you were a mental defective. And the skill challenge system was going to let you use any skill at any time, and it was going to make everyone in the party to contribute all the time to everything, and if you couldn't see the beauty of the coming system you shouldn't disagree with the people that did, because you hadn't seen the rules. If there was anything which you didn't understand from the previews, that was ok because it was going to be the best written edition of D&D ever with the most compelling fluff, the best DM advice, and in fact the DM advice would be impossible for anyone to read the rulebooks and be a bad DM or design a bad encounter. Because of course, there are no past issues that were the result of bad DMing, because everyone knows a good game system can't be run badly. And the rules would be such that it would prevent rules lawyers from being pricks. And the math would be fixed so that everything would just work with no need for DM input, because the designers said so. And the modules were going to be the best ever written for D&D ever, so that you'd totally forget about all that badwrongfun of earlier editions, which let's face it, sucked. And, it was also at the same time going to change nothing about how you played D&D because it was going to be the same game, and an even smaller change than between 3e and 2e, and heck, even if it didn't support playing D&D the same way then that was ok because D&D was always badwrongfun anyway.

5) The entirely pointless and contridictory new alignment non-system, and the other trashing of old fluff just for the sake of trashing it.

 

[nedjer]

I'm well hacked off by a hobby/ industry that spends more time on tearing chunks out of itself over stuff like Edition Wars instead of concentrating on getting kids off videogames and onto tabletop, scientifically destroying the puerile claims against tabletop RPGs, (occult or gang related come to mind), and getting RPGs into homes, schools and libraries.

That may sound very preachy but it's entirely selfish at root: a few more years of videogames, and RPGs borrowing from videogames, and there'll be no more open-ended play, 'don't take ourselves too seriously' players left to form a decent group. Tabletop RPGs won't disappear but they'll all be mechanical battle systems where sessions are 'won' by experts and a tiny number of apprentices determined to learn the experts 'dark arts'.

 

[Deset Gled]

I'll never be too happy with the stealth errata in the 3.5 Rules Compendium, but I give WotC credit for coming through with the last couple pieces of 3.5 web-published errata they promised. Considering this happened after the 4e release, I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth.

 

[underthumb]

2) Completely dissing their own past products in their marketing of 4e.

Full disclosure: I'm not a huge fan of D&D 4e, but I keep hearing comments like yours.

Was their marketing really like that? My (admittedly dim) memory is only of comments about what they were trying to fix with 4e. Which makes sense, given that they were performing a mechanical overhaul. Why should that anger you? Maybe the direct quotes you're thinking of would provide a better background.

Related note, completely dissing the fans of their past products (anyone remember 'Cloudwatching'?)

I just searched for "cloudwatching" and found the original post by Davd Noonan. I find no "dissing the fans of their past product." The post was about how 4e was coming, and that the varied reactions to it (good, bad, inbetween) were not changing its schedule. That is, the arrival of 4e was non-negotiable. Thus, he suggested that players and DMs play more consciously, and try to to see what was working/not-working in their own games. Presumably, this is a good thing to do if there's a new edition coming out, and you need to decide whether to switch.

4) The ludicrous statements of some 4e defenders concerning what 4e would be like .... It was going to be out of the box a rules light, stream-lined, flexible, narrativist, minature optional system with very fast but still cinematic combat resolution but that also made resolving complex situations with skills as natural and as important as combat, and if you didn't believe that then you were a mental defective.

Those are indeed strong claims. Do you have any examples?

5) The entirely pointless and contridictory new alignment non-system, and the other trashing of old fluff just for the sake of trashing it.

I too am sad at the trashing of old fluff.