WotC WotC needs an Elon Musk

[Remathilis]

Didn't see mod.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Replacing the Great Wheel with the World Axis wasn't an additive change. It was a replacement. Just like bringing the Wheel back in 5th ed was also technically a replacement.

If Nerath was its own world with the World Axis as its cosmology, that would be fine. But they used it for all the other 4e settings too, all of which predated the edition.

Actually given that 5e Great Wheel system took the Great Wheel cosmology from 2e and had it assimilate 4e World Access Cosmology's distinctiveness into its own perfection, it's not so much a replacement, as a merger where the Great Wheel part gets top billing. The Great Wheel then did the same to Eberron's Orrey Cosmology.

But all the 4e World Axis parts are still there in 5e Great Wheel. Elemental Chaos, check. Shadowfell, check. Feywild, Check. Spelljammer even added the Astral Sea and Astral Dominions back, allowing the 5e Great Wheel to absurd those too.

Next up assimilating the Blind Eternities and FRs 3e Great Tree Cosmology.

Seriously good luck doing a diagram of 5e's Great Wheel total cosmology now, including Eberron Orrey as a single diagram.

It's awesome, but also the most complex cosmology in D&D history.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

It's awesome, but also the most complex cosmology in D&D history.

IMO, the Great Wheel is less "awesome", and more "too goddamn big, complicated, and filled with redundancies to be useful in a game".

 

[Oofta]

IMO, the Great Wheel is less "awesome", and more "too goddamn big, complicated, and filled with redundancies to be useful in a game".

Which is why I've always ignored it and just came up with my own system with multiple realms loosely based on Norse lore. Seriously, who needs the quasi-elemental plane of salt?

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Which is why I've always ignored it and just came up with my own system with multiple realms loosely based on Norse lore. Seriously, who needs the quasi-elemental plane of salt?

Or two different planes of war. Or two different chaotic evil planes that could easily be combined. Or seven different upper planes that more or less all blend together.

 

[the Jester]

No, I think it's completely anomalous.

I mean, my game is pretty similar.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

Let's take Dementlieu for a moment. A domain that centers around mind rape and heavily implies regular rape.

1. You keep Dementlieu as-is, thus deliberately including topics which are personally upsetting to many players, both new and original, who have suffered from emotional and sexual abuse. The game should be horrific to the characters but fun for the players, after all, and people who play female characters shouldn't have to worry about being specifically targeted just for entering the country.

2. You get rid of Dementlieu entirely, which will anger some original fans because it should be included.

3. You keep Dementlieu as is but get rid of of the rape, which means you end up changing the existing characters to work around that restriction, which will anger some original fans for not keeping it exactly the way it used to be and possibly make them think that WotC is being wussy or pandering or even woke.

4. You keep the name and general theme of Dementlieu but make major changes to it, which will anger some original fans who are annoyed that it's DINO (Dementlieu In Name Only).

5. You don't produce Ravenloft at all, but produce a different horror setting, which will anger some original fans who want to know why their favorite setting is being ignored in favor of a brand new one clearly geared to the new players.

6. You don't produce any horror setting, which will anger both original and new fans who thinks that WotC is being too wussy to put out a horror game, thus encouraging people to buy non-WotC material or even move to a different system altogether.

So... which of these options is the best one, in your opinion?

Option number 1, always number 1

Which is why I've always ignored it and just came up with my own system with multiple realms loosely based on Norse lore. Seriously, who needs the quasi-elemental plane of salt?

Salt Genasi.

 

[the Jester]

It was geared towards evil PCs and had spells like Mindrape in it.

I'm kind of neutral on the book. If you buy into PCs being evil etc it's handled somewhat tactfully considering when it came out. (2002). And you can get rewarded for things like sentient sacrifice.

BUT even if you buy into that premise it's not that good mechanically and somewhat limited use. The Book of Exalted dreads is much better.

Hard disagree on the BoED- it was terrible, with terribly unbalanced mechanics even compared to the BoVD.

Vow of Poverty, anyone?

 

[Henadic Theologian]

IMO, the Great Wheel is less "awesome", and more "too goddamn big, complicated, and filled with redundancies to be useful in a game".

2e Great Wheel wasn't as complex as the 5e Great Wheel.

 

[Incenjucar]

The Great Wheel in either form isn't that complex unless you need it to be. It's large areas accessable through various means of travel and access with somewhat predictable inhabitants and environmental conditions.