D&D 5E Wizards Do Suck;)

[Tony Vargas]

The wizard class is a sucky design, sure., It's had what distinctiveness, depth, interest, and challenge it may have presented as the original Magic-User slowly stripped away with each successive edition. It's become more powerful/less restricted in many ways, but less interesting.
It's lonely and boring in Tier SS.

Cry us a river.

 

[Maxperson]

For me what killed 5e wizards for me are the following.

1. Concentration. It's just too freaking annoying. Balance around resource attrition and short lasting effects bugs the hell out of me. So those spells are all eliminated as anything I would enjoy.

2. Again, balance around resource attrition with a focus on hit points means that many wizard spells are do a little bit of damage this way or do a little bit that way or do a little bit the third, fourth fifth and sixth ways. Get a new spell level and it's the same, but the damage rises a bit because monster hit points rose a lot. Those are also spells that I no longer enjoy.

3. Bounded accuracy bounding things too tightly. Easy to make saves on both sides mean spells for the most part have little long lasting effect and the spells cast are really easy to save against.

That last one is for saves in general, not just wizards, but when combined with the first two just make the class super unfun to play. The only wizard I really enjoyed playing in 5e was my Bladesinger, and that was because he was pretty much a badass fighter who would also cast the occasional spell that wasn't a cantrip.

 

[Neonchameleon]

The wizard class is a sucky design, sure., It's had what distinctiveness, depth, interest, and challenge it may have presented as the original Magic-User slowly stripped away with each successive edition. It's become more powerful/less restricted in many ways, but less interesting.
It's lonely and boring in Tier SS.

Cry us a river.

The thing is I don't think it's actually lost much since about 1985 and both Unearthed Arcana giving you specialists with chosen spells and predefined stories meaning not every wizard was different. It just hasn't gained much since then.

 

[Vaalingrade]

The wizard lost their one weakness in that they're annoying to play and you have to play a game of mental chess with the DM every game day.

Oh no.

How will they recover from such a cruel blow? What humiliation will they suffer next? Starting the game with 1000gp?

 

[homunculus23]

So what you are saying is that the class that is already the most flexible and at high level the most powerful, and already gains more spells known (an extra spell of their specialist school per spell level rather than getting cheaper writing) should have still more given to them?

And the reason for this is that a seriously underpowered class got a few buffs? Seriously have you ever played a 2014 sorcerer?

"ever played".... .... ... Want to commit to running a game? Honestly, no. Only played as GM because no one else will.
But what I have seen is a Soceror outclasss every other spellcaster. Wizards do not and have NEVER gotten an extra spell slot. Where are you getting that information from? They get spells in the book, but not to cast.
"SERIOUSLY, {BRO} HAVE YOU EVER PLAYED A 2014 WIZARD?"

Their subclasses have offered very little in the way of customization or powers. They are the only class that does not gain a class ability at every level. Plus, their spell list REQUIRES material components!!!! Chromatic Orb? 50 gp crystal, please. Chaos Bolt? No cost, same damage, ah, why not? Chaos Bolt is better and can be cast right out of character creation. Wizards have to HOPE they are not playing with D-bags who only "split the treasure" instead of realizing investing into spells for the Wizard matters.
All the spells that a wizard gets, a sorcerer gets, and free. Name me one spell a wizard gets that tops a spell that a Soceror does not get but better.
Recall, that spell components costs money.... ....That is how they nerf wizards. They are also the most costly.

 

[homunculus23]

The wizard lost their one weakness in that they're annoying to play and you have to play a game of mental chess with the DM every game day.

Oh no.

How will they recover from such a cruel blow? What humiliation will they suffer next? Starting the game with 1000gp?

Unlike every other class, which is just playing to roll dice?
And yes, do to the cost of spell components being higher then any other class, yet Socerors get access to better and free spells, yes they should!

 

[Vaalingrade]

Unlike every other class, which is just playing to roll dice?

I am trying real hard to understand what you're saying here.

I am not succeeding, but I am trying.

And yes, do to the cost of spell components being higher then any other class, yet Socerors get access to better and free spells, yes they should!

You realize spell focuses aren't consumed in the casting right?

Wizards are hardly facing any worse money sink that say a melee character who needs armor and weapons constantly upgrading. Especially when the wizard can... just not use high focus cost spells. Fireballs is free.

 

[CleverNickName]

Give my players a set of dice and two hours of your time, and they will make you absolutely hate ANY character class you offer.

 

[homunculus23]

First, you commented that Wizards require thinking "chess". Are you saying other classes do not require the players to think - they just sit down and roll dice because they don't have to play the "chess". Places a greater burden on Wizards and magic use, which is why I cannot find players that play them.

I am trying real hard to understand what you're saying here.

I am not succeeding, but I am trying.


You realize spell focuses aren't consumed in the casting right?

Wizards are hardly facing any worse money sink that say a melee character who needs armor and weapons constantly upgrading. Especially when the wizard can... just not use high focus cost spells. Fireballs is free.

You realize... spell components that have a cost cannot be replaced by a spell focus. And they are consumed depending on the spell.
Here is the part that people don't read in the magic section:

Material (M)​

Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.

If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.

Thus, Wizards do suffer a cost sink compared to other classes. The higher levels require ore components that are consumed.
In addition, learning a new spell in between levels costs additional money. The fighter buys a two-handed sword: 50 gp. But it lasts the whole time. Wizard need Identify, Chromatic Orb - $150 plus $100 if they took 6 other spells to start that did not cost money to start - but another cost each time they learn a new spell. Cost the Soceror, again, nothing for Chaos Bolt.
Fighter: Start with no cost. Can always hit for 1d8
Wizard: Does not start with a 50gp diamon, 100gp pearl to cast spells.

In 30+ years, the cost sink has always been the nerf and curve of the Wizard. Everything else is hard.

 

[homunculus23]

Just tell me how, with which spells and abilities, does a Wizard beat a Soceror, or any class, that has access to meta magic and less costly spells?
Socerors also get one additional cantrip, which the Wizard does not. The Soceror gets the same spell slots that a Wizard gets. And the Soceror get access to the same versatility movement/control spells of a Wizard.