D&D General Why Do People Hate Gnomes?

[Parmandur]

I can get with that, yeah, but why didn't George MacDonald equally make gnomes permanently cool? The gnomes in Phantastes were awesome.

I won't argue with you...primarily because I haven't actually read it, and I think that answers your question if a megadork voracious reader like me hadn't read it in high school: because I read everything that I could get my hands on in a major metro area with well stocked Sci-Fi/Fantasy sections in libraries.

 

[Parmandur]

I stepped away for a while, but I wanna come back for this exchange, 'cause it is... y'know... accurate enough?

But also: Writers are part of society and absorb Pop Culture and shared cultural momentum of various concepts. We create new stuff, it is absolutely true and impossible to dispute unless you wanna break things down to quintessential elements and track them through all media.

When I write stuff about Sins of the Scorpion Age it's all going to be based on my experiences and perspectives and the media I've been exposed to. Some of it because I'm shunning it, some of it because I'm embracing it, and some of it because I'm aping it with only fractional understanding but a deep enjoyment of that concept.

And it's the same way with -every- writer.

Some Rando on the street who thinks "Legolas" instead of "Santa's Helpers" is helping to shape the cultural momentum of Elfness. And as a part of culture I can swim against the current and make Elves something new, I can swim across the current and make elves but slightly different, or I can swim with the current and make Legolas. But I'm not going to -change- the current by myself. And no amount of willful ignorance on my part will allow me to reasonable claim that I "Invented" elves whole-cloth and everyone else is somehow doing it wrong 'cause I didn't grow up in a cultural vacuum.

And for most people, this is a gnome:

That -includes- Writers. Everything D&D does with gnomes is swimming against or across the current. But because every setting basically reinvents gnomes (or excises them as the case may be), TSR, WotC, Paizo, and EN Publishing aren't even working together to create a new cultural momentum to try and turn things in the same direction.

We're all wandering off in our own, and gnomes remain where they are. With big beards, little red hats, and 3 times out of 100 their buttcheeks hanging out of their pants in a playfully tacky manner.

5E has made about as strong an effort as a y in D&D history to make Gnomes neither Halflings nor Garden Gnomes...and it really can only go so far fighting cultural momentum like that.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Gnomes are quirky. In 5e at least, most of their quirks are more-or-less just taken from ADHD and Autism Spectrum Disorder. They have hyper-fixations (which is why they often love small animals, tinkering, alchemy, and other hobbies), are socially awkward introverts, and are fascinated by the world they were born in.

That's a core concept as major as "Human, but short", or "humans, but immortal tree-huggers", and "humans, but with extraplanar ancestry". And just as open to different personality types.

Gnomes are short humans with fey-ish magic and quirks.

Gnomes are fun for my wife, I think, in part because of this. She can hyper focus on a special interest, run amok, be a vehicle for chaos, and just generally be, “herself, unmedicated, turned up to 11”.

I like to play with the impulsivity, and a mind that never stops running at high RPMs, and exploring the ways that can go quiet or turn scary, or whatever else.

 

[Parmandur]

Gnomes are fun for my wife, I think, in part because of this. She can hyper focus on a special interest, run amok, be a vehicle for chaos, and just generally be, “herself, unmedicated, turned up to 11”.

I like to play with the impulsivity, and a mind that never stops running at high RPMs, and exploring the ways that can go quiet or turn scary, or whatever else.

I thinkn5E is smart to lean into the Fey and quirky angle, which calls back to thebPoul Anderson origin story at any rate.

 

[Steampunkette]

5E has made about as strong an effort as a y in D&D history to make Gnomes neither Halflings nor Garden Gnomes...and it really can only go so far fighting cultural momentum like that.

You're right. But it's also fighting against 4e's interpretation of Gnomes and 2e's. and 3e's, and Greyhawk's and Eberron's and Forgotten Realms', and Dragonlance's, and...

5e is doing a strong job of giving them a character, and Critical Role is helping that, too. Live Plays and pre-recorded edited game sessions are probably the -best- shot gnomes have of becoming something somewhat unified, and they'll be using 5e's gnomes in the process.

Just gotta wait for the momentum to take over. And until then? Gnomehate is gonna continue 'cause gnomes are the bran race of D&D. They work great for what you need, but have all the flavor of cardboard. You can add the Strawberries of Tinkering or the Sugar of Feywild touches... but it's Bran for now.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I don't see how this is really any different from what I said. Would it have been better if I said "D&D-like gnomes"? "Elves" of some form exist all over the place in myth, but "elves" as they appear in D&D were basically invented by Tolkien, so...I figured that was sort of a given.

Even apart from that though, gnomes really aren't THAT common in mythology. In fact, "gnome" proper doesn't even appear in mythology at all; the term was invented by Paracelsus in the late 16th century, from the Latin gnomus, thought to be an accidental corruption of genomos, "living in the earth" or "earth-dweller." As a result, gnomes were essentially unknown to even folklore until the 19th century, at which point they were pretty much already the "garden gnome" shape and presentation we're familiar with today (often including the red, peaked hats.) Even where they appeared, they were essentially just a synonym for all the other words for "little people," e.g. leprechaun, fairy, goblin, brownie, sprite, and elves, since that term meant little beings like Thumbelina or Tom Thumb before Tolkien completely reinvented it.

Tolkien’s elves are alfar, which aren’t necessarily small, or similar to brownies and the like.

He didn’t invent them, he just didn’t use the original name for them.

Gandalf is a reference to a story wherein an elf named basically “wand elf” travels with some dwarves.

 

[Parmandur]

Tolkien’s elves are alfar, which aren’t necessarily small, or similar to brownies and the like.

He didn’t invent them, he just didn’t use the original name for them.

Gandalf is a reference to a story wherein an elf named basically “wand elf” travels with some dwarves.

But he did rescue the term "Elf" from Victorian camp cutesyness...but the Gnome really originated in thst vein, so there isn't actually an original to go back to.

 

[CleverNickName]

Do you think I'm angry? No, I'm not angry. For most of this thread, I've just been confused. I...

Apparently, you think people in this thread that like gnomes are angry at the people that dislike them...

Woops, sorry. No, I didn't think you (or anyone else) was getting angry in this thread, but I can totally see how you might have thought that. I quoted your post, I mentioned blood pressure, etc. That's totally on me.

No, I was just trying to riff off of the "gnome hate" theme of the thread, bring it back around to dwarves, and I'm clearly not as clever as I think I am.

 

[MGibster]

Sorry to disappoint you, but I have never listened to any of Nickelback's songs. (I'm only 20 years old, so most of your pop culture song references are lost on me.)

Holy %#%#, you just made me feel so old!

(Also, minor point, but didn't most people not know about the Lord of the Rings until the movies? At least in the USA?)

I don't know about most, but many Americans read Tolkien when they were in middle or high school. There are even a few high schools in the US where Tolkien's work is part of the required reading. Prior to the movies, it was the best known fantasy series in the United States.

I think we could all learn a lot about gnomes by exploring The World of David the Gnome.

 

[Maxperson]

Serious question, as I've seen a ton of people online that play D&D make jokes about Gnomes or say how much they hate them. More than Kender, actually.

So . . . what is it about Gnomes that makes people hate them so much? Or such easy targets for jokes online?

Gardens.

But seriously, I just don't like to play small races. No halflings or gnomes for me.