mellored
Legend
Sentinel, world tree, grapple, shield master, ect...
Which means parties are now going to be 80% small.
Like, who doesn't want a free +1 AC?
D&D General Should Gnomes be Tiny
- Thread starter kapars
- Start date
Like, who doesn't want a free +1 AC?
Shadowdweller00
Hero
Being tiny does NOT make Gnomes easier to cook. It makes them have less meat per unit time spent butchering; or alternately per count of Murder.
Theory of Games
Storied Gamist
Kobold Avenger
Legend
2e Forest Gnomes might have been 2 feet tall from what I remember. They stopped being that small after that edition.
Now I notice that in the 2024 PHB, Gnomes who are 3 to 4 feet are typically taller than Halflings who are 2 to 3 feet now.
Now I notice that in the 2024 PHB, Gnomes who are 3 to 4 feet are typically taller than Halflings who are 2 to 3 feet now.
Tessarael
Adventurer
I'd say no, as size Tiny is 1' to 2' tall, and size Small is 2' to 4' tall. So, both Gnomes and Halflings should be in the Small size category. There are other smaller creatures like Pixies and Sprites in the size Tiny category. In general though, most PCs should be in the Small and Medium size range, as both Tiny and Large present mechanical issues. For size Large, the problem is needing to squeeze indoors of dwellings for Medium-size creatures (assumed to be the default in most campaigns) and underground. For size Tiny, it is an issue with reach, grappling et al. For size Tiny, it can be potentially be solved by allowing them the reach and grapple skills of a small creature, but they would not be the norm for such a size.
Here's the summary I put together a few years back for sizes Tiny, Small, and Large:
Here's the summary I put together a few years back for sizes Tiny, Small, and Large:
Tiny
A tiny creature takes up a 2.5'x2.5' space.Limitations of size tiny
- Speed 20' typically
- -2 Strength ability modifier typically
- Disadvantage to attack with weapons that are not light
- Grapple target may only be one size larger, i.e. small
- Medium creatures can pass through your square
- Half carrying capacity
Benefits of size tiny
- Can squeeze into a space one size smaller, i.e. 1'x1'
- Many more opportunities for cover
- Can move through a square occupied by a medium or bigger creature
Small
A small creature takes up a 5'x5' space, just like a medium creature. They also have no penalty to carrying capacity.Limitations of size small
- Speed 25' typically
- Disadvantage to attack with heavy weapons
- Grapple target may only be one size larger, i.e. medium (not large), and tiny creatures can grapple you
- Large creatures can pass through your square
Benefits of size tiny
- Can squeeze into a space one size smaller, i.e. 2.5'x2.5'
- More opportunities for cover
- Can move through a square occupied by a large or bigger creature
Large
Benefits of size large
- Cannot be grappled by a small creature
- Can grapple huge creatures
- Double carrying capacity, and the amount it can push, drag, or lift
- Wields larger weapons - this is not well-handled by 5e, and is a good reason to avoid size large PC races
Limitations of size large
- Armor (barding) and shields both cost double and weigh double that of medium size armor and shield.
- Small creatures can pass through your square.
- Takes up a 10'x10' space.
- Can squeeze into a space one size smaller, i.e. 5'x5' - this will be a significant disadvantage indoors:
- While squeezing through a space:
- Movement rate is halved.
- It has disadvantage on attack rolls and Dexterity saving throws.
- Attack rolls against the creature have advantage.
That is a very traditional book on Gnomes! The illustrations are really cool; try to keep in as good condition as you can.
I could see these gnomes fitting quite easily in a setting like Household.
I think the other suggestions people made as far as how to better represent them in D&D (a kind of playable faerie folk) would work well too!
I think everyone that wants Tiny gnomes should find or make up their own rules for them... balance them in whatever manner they are most comfortable with... and then play their games with them.
But there's zero reason to want or expect every other person who plays the game to have to follow your lead. If there's a bunch of people out there who don't want the hassle of dealing with the mechanics of the Tiny size... they don't have to. So there's no reason to try and convince them that it's a good idea.
But there's zero reason to want or expect every other person who plays the game to have to follow your lead. If there's a bunch of people out there who don't want the hassle of dealing with the mechanics of the Tiny size... they don't have to. So there's no reason to try and convince them that it's a good idea.
Tonguez
A suffusion of yellow
Who are these other people? If I'm the only one playing a gnome and the DM agrees then how is anyone else affected by it?
Beats me. But people are arguing in this thread about whether they should or shouldn't be even though there's no reason to and no legitimate answer is going to come of it.
Hriston
Dungeon Master of Middle-earth (He/him)
Gnomes is about the Kabouter of Dutch folklore, a different creature from Paracelsus's gnome which was derived from the German Bergmännlein or Kobel. The English translation of the book translates Kabouter as gnome, but I think it might have been more accurate to use hob or brownie. As in the book, the Kabouter is described as about four to six inches tall, whereas Paracelsus claimed the gnome was about eighteen inches tall and Georg Agricola said they were about 27 inches tall. So, sure, a case could be made for tiny size gnomes, but basing it on that book seems to conflate them with something else.
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