D&D General Tor-eal (1000 years after the Devils win the Blood War)

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
You would have loved 4e FR then ;)
Nah, not that kind of blowing up. The Spellplague was too weird, with things happening just "because". For some reason, Mystra's death caused Abeir and Toril to merge, which there was absolutely no lore reason for, except that they wanted Dragonborn to be a main player race. Azuth fell into the Nine Hells just because they wanted Asmodeus to become a god. The whole event was because they wanted to rearrange the cosmology a bit.

In this world, the cosmology isn't re-arranged, it's more blocked off, if anything. All events that happened are based on what I would think would happen if the Blood War ended with the Devils winning, and the changes to the races are based on what happens in the events coming up to this.
 

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dave2008

Legend
Nah, not that kind of blowing up. The Spellplague was too weird, with things happening just "because". For some reason, Mystra's death caused Abeir and Toril to merge, which there was absolutely no lore reason for, except that they wanted Dragonborn to be a main player race. Azuth fell into the Nine Hells just because they wanted Asmodeus to become a god. The whole event was because they wanted to rearrange the cosmology a bit.

In this world, the cosmology isn't re-arranged, it's more blocked off, if anything. All events that happened are based on what I would think would happen if the Blood War ended with the Devils winning, and the changes to the races are based on what happens in the events coming up to this.
IDK, to me it seems more like what you want to happen then a logical exercise of what would happen. It seems nearly as arbitrary as the 4e changes to me. But again I am an outside with no great love or knowledge of FR lore. Not sure if that makes me a better or worse judge!
 

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
It paints the celestials and gods as complete idiots on several accounts. Too slow to act? Surprised the devils deceived them? Come on, these are entities with eons of experience and intelligence and comprehension well beyond mortals and they couldn't react or be prepared for such events? IDK, just seems like you took the easy way out. I would rather you just said the gods are dead and don't explain it.
Again, this is just the explanation the Celestials gave the people of the world. If it's correct, they might have left out key information. If it's false, it's probably for a shameful reason, like Ao killed the gods and separated the Inner Planes from the Outer Planes as a punishment and protection.
This explanation isn't "official lore" but more of what scholars of Tor-eal have been told for years.
What happened to the primordials?
They're still in Abeir.
I have little to no interest in playing in a setting without gods
Okay, then. There is still the Raven Queen and Vecna, but I'll get to that later. So, do you not like Eberron, Ravnica, or Dark Sun?
Change in races: I don't see anything that really interest me, but I didn't get through it all.
Okay.
My question for you: why use the back drop of FR or the blood war at all? You have essential created a new unique setting, why make it vaguely connected to FR? I mean it basically has nothing to do with the FR.
This was the product of me asking "what would happen if the devils won the blood war, fast forward 1000 years". I chose the Forgotten Realms because it's the one most connected to the Blood War, I know a lot of lore on it, and it's meant to basically be a new setting. Additionally, lots of the original cities still exist, like Waterdeep, Silverymoon, and Baldur's Gate.
To clarify, I have no love for FR. I've never used it (or any published setting) and probably never will.
Okay.
 

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
IDK, to me it seems more like what you want to happen then a logical exercise of what would happen. It seems nearly as arbitrary as the 4e changes to me. But again I am an outside with no great love or knowledge of FR lore. Not sure if that makes me a better or worse judge!
What happens is definitely partly due to my own specific end to the Blood War. How the blood war ends is dependent on each DMs perspective of it. Mine is definitely different from what yours would be.

If you don't like it, don't feel the need to comment. Thanks for expressing your opinion. I've worked on this long enough to be motivated to keep doing so.
 

dave2008

Legend
Again, this is just the explanation the Celestials gave the people of the world. If it's correct, they might have left out key information. If it's false, it's probably for a shameful reason, like Ao killed the gods and separated the Inner Planes from the Outer Planes as a punishment and protection.
This explanation isn't "official lore" but more of what scholars of Tor-eal have been told for years.
I get that,, but is clearly the one you prefer or it wouldn't be the story that is told for years. It just seems to me an odd conclusion based on the premise of what would happen if the devils won the blood war. But if that is what you want, so be it.

They're still in Abeir.
But they were not all in Abeir to begin with - I provided that info in the other tread. I think the better options is just to ignore them. They were canon in 4e, but necessarily in 5e. I don't think there has been anything official regarding primordials in 5e FR.

Okay, then. There is still the Raven Queen and Vecna, but I'll get to that later. So, do you not like Eberron, Ravnica, or Dark Sun?
Great, two pseudo-gods :p JK

To clarify I have no issue with settings that don't have gods. I just don't want to play in them. As I mentioned previously i don't play in published settings, of the ones listed I would be most interested in Eberron (which does have gods BTW), but again I don't use published settings.

PS. Didn't you say Tiamat and Asmodeus survived as well? I'm glad my favorite dragon goddess made it BTW;)

This was the product of me asking "what would happen if the devils won the blood war, fast forward 1000 years". I chose the Forgotten Realms because it's the one most connected to the Blood War, I know a lot of lore on it, and it's meant to basically be a new setting. Additionally, lots of the original cities still exist, like Waterdeep, Silverymoon, and Baldur's Gate.
Again, I find it an odd conclusion - but we all see what we want see. I do get the idea of still using existing geographies, though I assume you are planning to discuss how these have changed over the 1,000 yrs. Heck after 1,000 yrs RL cities can have major transformation.

Finally, I am sorry I've come out bit negative about this thread / idea. I think a lot of what your're suggesting is interesting and I looked forward to what else you share. I just have a problem with the history, I can't get were you got from where you started with my perspective of the outer planes, fiends, & celestials. It just doesn't track logically to me, but that is a me issue and I don't think you are interested in looking at the details of that history. As to not derail you any further I will not bring it up again.
 

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
I get that,, but is clearly the one you prefer or it wouldn't be the story that is told for years. It just seems to me an odd conclusion based on the premise of what would happen if the devils won the blood war. But if that is what you want, so be it.
It's the easier explanation, and the first one I came up with. I like that explanation, the Ao one, and others could also be told and be valid, but since it was the first I came up with, it has the most relevance to the lore at this point.
But they were not all in Abeir to begin with - I provided that info in the other tread. I think the better options is just to ignore them. They were canon in 4e, but necessarily in 5e. I don't think there has been anything official regarding primordials in 5e FR.
Okay. Most of them are in Abeir, and aren't the others the Elemental Evils and other elemental creatures? If they were in the Outer Planes, they're dead or cut off. If they were in the Inner Planes, they might be up to their own thing.

I've checked, and there's not really any 5e lore regarding the primordials. I might add them later. I do have another post filled with lore coming soon.
To clarify I have no issue with settings that don't have gods. I just don't want to play in them. As I mentioned previously i don't play in published settings, of the ones listed I would be most interested in Eberron (which does have gods BTW), but again I don't use published settings.
That's fine.
(Eberron does have gods, but it's not clear whether or not they actually exist)
PS. Didn't you say Tiamat and Asmodeus survived as well? I'm glad my favorite dragon goddess made it BTW;)
Yes, but they're in the Outer Planes, and are cut off. Anyone who was a cleric or cultist to them when the separation of the planes happened lost their powers.
Again, I find it an odd conclusion - but we all see what we want see. I do get the idea of still using existing geographies, though I assume you are planning to discuss how these have changed over the 1,000 yrs. Heck after 1,000 yrs RL cities can have major transformation.
Yes, some things will change. Not much. The surface geography won't change a ton, but there will be more cities, larger cities, and so on. Waterdeep has around 150 million people in that region now, and they're fairly advanced.
Finally, I am sorry I've come out bit negative about this thread / idea. I think a lot of what your're suggesting is interesting and I looked forward to what else you share. I just have a problem with the history, I can't get were you got from where you started with my perspective of the outer planes, fiends, & celestials. It just doesn't track logically to me, but that is a me issue and I don't think you are interested in looking at the details of that history. As to not derail you any further I will not bring it up again.
Thanks for your input, though.
 

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
Okay, here's more lore:

Minotaurs: Similar to Gnolls and Drow, they were freed at the end of the Blood War. No longer bound to their abyssal god, Baphomet, the Minotaurs were confused. They no longer had a purpose in the world, but did have a place. Becoming a fierce, but unbound race of people, they no longer had a unifying reason for existence, so they started with the basics, survival. Though they already lived in caves and dungeons, they no longer felt satisfied with their lives of terrorizing others, and hiding in dungeons worshipping dark evils. As a people, the Minotaurs left their ruinous dungeons and labyrinthine caves, and formed settlements in the forests and woods of Faerun.

At first, they were attacked by Wood Elves and other feyish and plant inhabitants of these forests, but they were powerful and strong enough to drive them out of their forests and to the north. The Minotaurs, not sure of much in the world except for the fact that they hate elves and fey, started logging. They chopped down trees, using the branches of them as fuels for fire, and with the logs they build wooden forts surrounded by mazes of wood, keeping out intruders, but easily passed through by the Minotaurs.

As the millennia went on, the Minotaurs lost their savage and brutal ways (still having no love for elves and fey), and became less monstrous. Shrinking in size, due to them no longer being cultists to Baphomet, and becoming more and more human-like, the Minotaurs became another race of humanoids. Now a race of forest-dwelling, logging, and fortress building people, they started trade with other races. Gnolls needed wood for their city's buildings, and the minotaurs needing hides and fabrics for clothing and art. Minotaurs even developed their own language, called Minotaur, which was a mix of Orc, Abyssal, and Common. They eventually learned the ways of masonry, reinforcing their fortresses with stone walls and foundations.

Nowadays, a Minotaur settlement is a fearsome place. Fortresses filled with trophies and hides of slain creatures, no one of elven or feyish descent allowed within a mile of a fortress, the roofs of the castles made out of wood, but covered in fire-proof hides. They no longer a savage and brutal people, but are an industrious and hard-working people. Their fortresses are ever-expanding, many of their fortresses have mines underneath, and forges inside, billowing smoke 24 hours a day. They're master weaponsmiths with a love for gold, whose art shows them conquering woodland creatures, treants, and druids, as well as the rise of their society. They have no religion, except capitalism. They have few laws, except that harming other minotaurs is not allowed. They trade often, but not with Elves or Firbolg.

Aboleths: Residents of Toril for millenia, who dwelled here before the gods, and after the gods. Resenting all things holy for these many, many years, the Aboleths were pleased when the gods died. Finally, their patience and plotting would benefit them. Their first task as a race was to come together, and dominate the Kuo-Toa, who had fled to the ocean to avoid destruction by the Duergar. Claiming to be their gods, the Aboleths gained the complete faith and devotion of the Kuo-Toa people.

Next, they waited. It took over 28 years, but then it happened. Carefully calculating the actions of the other races, the Aboleths waited for the Illithids to leave Toril. Noticing how they kidnapped White Dragons, the Abolteths took advantage of this situation. They sent their Kuo-Toa to an underwater cave containing Bronze Dragon eggs, destroying them. They planted evidence implicating the Storm Giants in this act. When the Dragons noticed, they were infuriated. United together, the Dragons declared war on the Giants, starting the Second Dragon-Giant War.

While the war was raging, and the giants and dragons were distracted, they Aboleths swam deep into the ocean floor to the lairs of sleeping krakens. Dominating a few krakens, taking control of them, and unleashing them upon the Storm Giant strongholds of the ocean. The Krakens destroyed the Storm Giants' homes, forcing them to leave the ocean, and allowing the Aboleths to have control of the oceans of Toril. Attacking settlements on the Sword Coast, and the settlements of underwater races, they were able to ravage the races who depended on the oceans. They forced the Aquatic Elves to flee up rivers, now making their homes closer to other races, mostly in the docks of other cities, or in lakes. The Tritons left the oceans and travelled back to the Elemental Plane of Water. Merrow and Sahuagin started worshipping the krakens. Merfolk, also going up rivers, became nomadic, building no permanent homes in the rivers or lakes of the Sword Coast.

Though they had the Krakens, the Aboleths were not yet able to conquer the humanoids of Toril, for one pesky reason: the Angels. After the Catastrophe, the Solars, Planetars, and Devas decided to help the humanoid races recover from the calamitous events that occurred. Soon afterwards, the Second Dragon-Giant War started, and they Angels decided to stay to protect the cities from the dragons. Then, just as the war was raging on, the Aboleths seized control of the oceans, and the Angels had to remain to protect the cities on the coasts.

Giants: The giants have had a rough couple millennia. First, Annam sent the runt Hartkiller to inform the giants that Annam was not pleased with them, and that they needed to change their ways. Infuriated, the Giants then slew Hartkiller, provoking Annam's wrath. Next, Annam was forced to abandon his children, and he revoked the Ordning, causing chaos to fill Giantish society, and a war with the smaller races is almost provoked by a scheming ancient blue dragon. Finally, Annam returns to Toril for the last time, with just enough time to tell the Giants that they are failures and to give up on Ostoria, he then sacrifices himself to protect the humanoid races of Toril, along with all of their other gods.

The giants were angry. Looked down on by their patron deity for centuries, like a disappointed father looks at a disappointing son. At first, they could not accept that the smaller races might be superior to them in any way. Begrudgingly following the last commandment of Annam, the giants give up their traditions. Having no gods to serve, no ordning to order them, and their culture completely collapsing, the giants were fractured. The Storm Giants no longer were higher in giantish society than Hill Giants, or any other giant.

Then, disaster struck again. First, the Fire and Stone Giants were forced out of the Underdark by Duergar. Next, the Dragons, chromatic and metallic, united to attack the giants, with no explanation of why. The giants, weakened and desperate, fought back. This was their only purpose at the time, the only thing that gave them a purpose, and it was to rid the world of the horrid dragons. Their fractured society reformed, but differently. No type of giant was automatically higher in ranking than others, instead they were led by a champion. Each settlement of giants worked together to fight against the dragons, and any giant who slew a dragon gained a score. This score was marked by dragon-scales, which they put on their armor to mark their ranking in the caste. The older a dragon slain by a giant, the higher ranking they received. In a giant village, the giant whose armor contained the most dragon scales, marked with a rune marking their achiements on each set of scales, became the clan's champion, and they commanded their settlement in battle.

After 86 years of the Second Dragon-Giant War, the giant strongholds in the ocean were attacked by krakens, who were controlled by Aboleths. Now discovering that it was the Aboleths who started the Second Dragon-Giant War, the Giants were forced out of the ocean. Their society now revolved around this war, and the only way to gain ranking was through the war. The Giants kept this discovery to themselves, but they were weakened from the war. They needed aid, so they turned to the Goliaths and Firbolg. The Goliaths were willing to help them in the war, but the Firbolg were currently in chaos due to the new presence of the Minotaurs in their woods, and turned down the invitation to an alliance. The Urtgardt Barbarian tribes joined the Giants in an alliance for battle.

The Second Giant-Dragon War continued for 655 years, with heavy casualties on both the giant and dragon sides. The humanoids who served the giants (goliaths, urtgardt barbarians) became rivals of those that served the dragons in the war (kobolds, lizardfolk, hearthdrak dragonborn). The war ended with a forced stalemate, with an intervention from the Celestials forcing them to stop fighting, as it was too destructive for the other races.
 

dave2008

Legend
Aboleths: Residents of Toril for millenia, who dwelled here before the gods, and after the gods. Resenting all things holy for these many, many years, the Aboleths were pleased when the gods died. Finally, their patience and plotting would benefit them. Their first task as a race was to come together, and dominate the Kuo-Toa, who had fled to the ocean to avoid destruction by the Duergar. Claiming to be their gods, the Aboleths gained the complete faith and devotion of the Kuo-Toa people.

Next, they waited. It took over 28 years, but then it happened. Carefully calculating the actions of the other races, the Aboleths waited for the Illithids to leave Toril. Noticing how they kidnapped White Dragons, the Abolteths took advantage of this situation. They sent their Kuo-Toa to an underwater cave containing Bronze Dragon eggs, destroying them. They planted evidence implicating the Storm Giants in this act. When the Dragons noticed, they were infuriated. United together, the Dragons declared war on the Giants, starting the Second Dragon-Giant War.
I think aboleths (or Yuan-ti) taking advantage of the upheaval makes a lot of sense. The aboleths have been essentially waiting and plotting for just this situation for eons. However,...
Dominating a few krakens,...
...how does this work? By simple "power" and stat block the aboleths don't have much of a chance (heck the kraken only needs to roll a 3 to prevent being dominated.) against the krakens.

I do think the Kraken's make natural allies, but I think the aboleths would have a more elaborate plan that:

1) doesn't rely on them "dominating" the Krakens
2) has more layers and contingencies

Regardless I like where this is going.
 

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
(or Yuan-ti)
Oh, they're definitely coming.
I think aboleths taking advantage of the upheaval makes a lot of sense. The aboleths have been essentially waiting and plotting for just this situation for eons.
Yes, definitely. They have an agenda, and it's going to take awhile to bring about, but Aboleths are patient. They need the Celestials gone, and are working towards this.
...how does this work? By simple "power" and stat block the aboleths don't have much of a chance (heck the kraken only needs to roll a 3 to prevent being dominated.) against the krakens.
They would succeed most of the time, but with enough Aboleths trying enough times, this would work. They only need a few krakens, and death is just a minor annoyance to them, so if they try enough, they'll eventually succeed at enslaving a few.
I do think the Kraken's make natural allies, but I think the aboleths would have a more elaborate plan that:

1) doesn't rely on them "dominating" the Krakens
2) has more layers and contingencies

Regardless I like where this is going.
Sure, that's a possibility, as well. I chose the "domination/enslavement" route mainly to make it so the Aboleths had complete control of the oceans. Aboleths don't do cooperation, they want to be at the top, IMO.
 

Levistus's_Leviathan

5e Freelancer
Okay, here's a bit more:
Yuan-Ti: These demon worshipping snake people, like the aboleths and illithids, benefited from the Catastrophe more than they lost from it. They did lose, almost everyone lost in the Catastrophe in some way, but they also accomplished much of their agenda. They worshipped demons and serpent gods, both of which died during the Catastrophe, but their society did not fall. They still have slaves, a whole race of people under their complete control (broodguards) and the warlocks did not lose their power. Still, they were disoriented from the Catastrophe. Mershaulk and Sseth seemed to have died, and the only patron of the Yuan-Ti that was replying was Dendar the Night Serpent, who their whole societies started revolving around.

Over the centuries, their culture became more and more engrained in nightmares, sleep, and started being seen as the bogeymen of Toril. Becoming a nocturnal race of stealthy snake-primordial serving monsters, they sent spies across the world as Dendar commanded them. The race being changed by Dendar the Night Serpent, gaining the power to curse persistent nightmares upon unsuspecting creatures. Yuan-Ti Purebloods are effectively wiped out, and are all replaced by this race, or this stat block.

After centuries of scheming and serving their awful lady, Dendar the Night Serpent, the Yuan-Ti were finally able to free her. With her strength greatly increased by her servants' terrible devotion, she was able to communicate with her followers and reveal her location. Hidden behind an iron door leading to the Underworld underneath a mountain in Chult, she guided her servants to her foul location, who freed her from her prison 666 years after the Catastrophe. The god Ubtao, who was tasked with guarding this gate had abandoned the people of Chult, taking the city of Mezro with him. Fortunately for the world, he did not die during the Catastrophe, as he was not a resident of the Outer Planes.

With Dendar finally freed, she unleashed her horrific terror upon the world, at first devouring the Yuan-Ti who were present at the moment of her freedom. The Night Serpent flew south, devouring everything in her path, from trees, to stone, to earth and all the creatures that were in her path. Arriving at the Snout of Omgar, she devoured the island, growing in size, and destroying the homeland of the Tortles. Then, heading north, Dendar spent five days assailing the continent of Chult, destroying much of the jungle, consuming many undead residents of the jungle, and causing a cacophony of screams in her wake.

On the fifth day of Dendar's freedom, Ubtao sensed her release. He had been awarded the continent of Chult for his help in the war against the primordials at the beginning of the world, and was tasked with guarding the gate to Dendar's prison. Feeling a sense of duty to the world, Ubtao returned with the holy city of Mezro, and he, with the help of his barae, were able to re-imprison Dendar beneath the mountain in which she resided, and promised to stay watching that gate until the end of time to make sure Dendar never was released again.

After Dendar's re-imprisonment, with the population of Yuan-Ti significantly reduced by their "goddess's" devouring of her releasers, they hid in the shadows of the world. Still plotting for the day when they would re-release Dendar, they glide silently through the night, spreading horrible dreams through the minds of unconscious creatures, slowly, but surely increasing her power once more.

Tortles: 666 years after the Catastrophe, Dendar the Night Serpent was released by the Yuan-Ti inhabitants of Tor-eal, who immediately devoured the Yuan-Ti, many Chultans, and the island known as the Snout of Omgar, which was the homeland of the Tortles. Many Tortles perished during this event, and they suffered greatly in the following days as Chult was ravaged by the serpent primordial for multiple days, which was the location that had the second biggest population of Tortles, which caused even more deaths among their species.

At this point, the Tortles were restricted in places they could go. They didn't want to dwell on the mainland near other races, as they were suspicious of the more monstrous races, as is understandable if your home was just destroyed by the actions of a species of snake people. The oceans were controlled by the Aboleths and Krakens, and were not safe. They decided to start dwelling in lakes, only surfacing when they needed air or food. They used rivers as "roads" to transport them as they need for travel. Over the course of the centuries, they gained the ability to breath water, swim better, and developed underwater cities in lakes, and literally transformed rivers into roads that they could use to transport goods with carts pulled by large fish. Here are their new racial statistics.

Tieflings: Due to their infernal nature, tieflings faced major discrimination shortly after the Catastrophe. Many of them were wrongfully blamed for causing or allowing the events that took place to take place, but the fault was not on them. Even some types of celestials either placed the blame on these tieflings, or didn't speak out when tieflings were discriminated. The main type of people who did not reject the tieflings were orcs, half-orcs, dwarves, and coatls. Throughout many centuries of getting closer to these people, tieflings eventually bred with coatls, causing their physical appearance and statistics to change.

Now, their became only two types of tieflings, one known as the Holyscales, and the others known as the Brightwings. Their horns and tails no longer were fiendish, but instead became scaled. Tieflings stopped being fiendish colors, instead becoming white, gold, yellow, green, orange, turquoise, or a mix of two or more colors. Their legs were also scaled, and the Brightwings had rainbow-colored feathery wings, like a coatl's. The Holyscales often have glimmering scales, often of the lighter colors, and they have the ability to sense evil and good creatures, detect thoughts, and call holy fire.

They now have a culture of right-doers, priests, and justice-bringers. Often becoming judges, clerics, and servants to the celestials, these tieflings are found scattered across the world, even in gnoll cities, or orc camps. They now also try to fight evil whenever it surfaces, also often capable of rallying people to their aid in these holy tasks.

Edit: Here's the tiefling race
 
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