D&D 5E the shield warrior - better than some think?

[James Gasik]

This is the real issue with using a shield, since the shield offers very little utility in D&D, unlike in real world combat. Dueling Style can get you back up to roughly the same average damage as a two hander, but that precludes you taking another Style you might want, of course, but the reason things like GWM exist is that it's not super hard to ensure you hit most enemies.

Bounded Accuracy keeps most AC's reasonable. But to make up for this, your enemies have lots of hit points, and that's when options that let you do more damage really become much better than they would otherwise appear.

 

[Stormonu]

In the current campaign I am playing in, I've been playing a sword & board paladin (with the defense fighting style) and I have greatly enjoyed it. No GWM or PAM, and I feel it works fine. Enemies miss way more often than they hit, and I can usually extend that protection to the ally fighting next to me (say, a rogue). I've got enough tricks and abilities as a paladin that I can still throw out pretty good damage on an enemy.

 

[Immoralkickass]

People use the bonus attack from PAM while using a shield in the other hand...? Man that is some dodgy cheese right there.

This is why hoplites rule supreme back in the day.

 

[cbwjm]

I think sword and board is good, I tend to lean towards it rather than two-handed weapons.

I'd probably allow any character proficient in shields to use it to make a bonus action off-hand attack, 1d4 damage, +mod if you have the fighting style. If people want to keep the distinction of light weapons, then I'd add a buckler, same damage, +1 AC only and upgrade the regular shield to 1d6 damage.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

That is a good breakdown and nice to hear about actual play.

We usually have soo many white room analyses here,only looking at one single metric: average damage output over a big number of rounds.

A sword and board user can be 5
4 to 5 AC ahead of a great weapon user. So i guess besides reliability, you don't spend as mich time hugging the ground.

A battlemaster can also use their expertise dice more freely, because they don't have to save it for precision attack.

So I guess the balance team did a way better job than people give them credit for.

 

[Stoutstien]

Aye. One handed weapons, with or without shield, tend to be greatly undervalued in the current meta. Side effect of the HP buffering that happens around lv 11 where it just starts climbing so damage boosters are held in high regard. The thing a lot ppl miss is the gap that is gained by spending a style, 1-2 feats, and probably a class/subclass to support GWM isn't that big.

 

[DND_Reborn]

People use the bonus attack from PAM while using a shield in the other hand...? Man that is some dodgy cheese right there.

Not really. With two-handed polearms there is no cheese, obviously, and with staves and spears you can use them with one hand and still twirl them to attack with both ends--so, no cheese at all.

The Achilles vs. Hector fight in the movie Troy shows this very well IMO.


If you haven't seen it, watch Achilles attacking at 1:18. He uses a spear and shield, and spins the butt end of the spear around to attack as well as thrusting with the spear tip.

Many martial arts show quarterstaffs being used one-handed and spun to strike with the non-dominant end.

EDIT: I will comment however, that the butt-end attack should just be d4 without ability modifier to damage IMO unless the PC is using it two-handed and has the TWF style. I know JC ruled you are supposed to add STR (or DEX for monks) to the d4, but definitely used one-handed for such maneuvers I don't feel you can get the leverage really for the bonus damage.

 

[Mort]

People use the bonus attack from PAM while using a shield in the other hand...? Man that is some dodgy cheese right there.

Not even a little cheesey!

There's a reason spear and should was such a big thing for so long (as already mentioned)!

And you can't say BOTH, look how awesome welding a two handed greatsword (especially with feats) is. While at the same time complaining when shield users gets some nice things too!

 

[Blue]

People use the bonus attack from PAM while using a shield in the other hand...? Man that is some dodgy cheese right there.

As long as by "dodgy cheese" you mean "designer intent and playing by the rules", then I agree.

The spear is a one handed weapon. It was even errata'd in as opposed to being on the list originalyl so we know it's not a legacy "oops" but intentional.

Your judgement of others playstyle is pretty out of line.

 

[Oofta]

The problem I have with polearm master is not that you can attack with the butt end of your weapon, it's that it's limited to specific weapons if those weapons are used one handed. I think any melee weapon that isn't light should qualify, particularly if it's versatile.

The alternative is that you can only use the bonus attack if wielding the weapon 2-handed. Why can't I swing my longsword and then bash then with the pommel? Used one handed, a spear (for melee purposes) isn't that much different.