D&D General The Problem with Individual Initiative

[Knorrrssk]

I think my favorite house rule is to do a hybrid. Everyone rolls for initiative (the GM one roll for all monsters). Then the GM calls out, "Everyone above X, (where X = monster's turn) can go." Then GM goes. Then whoever is left. That allows some flexibility to the players, but only those who went faster than the monsters, and then those who went slower.

Yes, that's what I do. It just turns into side initiative after the first turn, but still gives an advantage to those with high initiative scores.

 

[billd91]

Yes, that's what I do. It just turns into side initiative after the first turn, but still gives an advantage to those with high initiative scores.

I've done that before in addition to Taking 10 on the monster initiative.

 

[MGibster]

A bit like the problem when they removed weapon speed. There was once a trade-off to taking a dagger or great axe. If you were fighting the orc with a great axe and you had a dagger, you could lose initiative, but hit first since your weapon speed was faster. Same with casting times for spells.

Weapon speed slowed things down a great deal. You roll initiative and then everyone has to take the time to recalculate based on their weapon speed. As a DM, I don't want to have to do that for every NPC under my control. And another problem with weapon speed is that it didn't make any sense. If you're armed with a two handed sword and I'm armed with a dagger, you're going to have the opportunity to strike me first before I can get close enough to stab you with the dagger.

 

[DEFCON 1]

The one thing I do that aids in things is to not be completely dogmatic about the game mechanics when it comes to combat, and instead be more than willing to do narrative depending on what players/monsters wish to do.

Case in point, retreating. If the players want to retreat the game mechanics are set up such that the player moves, the monster moves and become adjacent, the player moves again and the monster gets an opportunity attack, the monster then move adjacent again, etc. etc. etc. And in "theory" the PC gets killed and can never get away if you stay strictly with game mechanic combat above all else.

Which is why I don't. If a PC runs off to retreat, I might have a monster move once to try and engage... but often I'll just zoom out narratively and say the monster watches the retreating PC, maybe fires a ranged attack at them if they have one, but otherwise the PC can just get away. And I can make that decision just as the DM for what makes sense to the narrative of the fight we are in, and thus never have to create these complex "house rule" systems for retreating in order to let PCs get away within the context of the game mechanics.

The game mechanics for combat are fine and all... but they aren't so great that I care to keep every single fight within their ruleset. At some point just waving my hand and saying "what makes story sense here?" trumps any need for an enslavement to the miniature combat rules.

 

[Oofta]

I've considered bringing back delay for this issue while still having ready. So jumping back in to initiative for delay happens after someone else has completed their turn, a reaction can interrupt a turn. Delay to go after the ogre, ready to attack when an enemy comes within melee range.

Delay can slow down the game though and honestly it doesn't come up all that often. I know there are many different ways of handling this but some people I've gamed with have a hard enough time with analysis paralysis and having too many options, so I've kept standard initiative for now.

 

[Knorrrssk]

Weapon speed slowed things down a great deal. You roll initiative and then everyone has to take the time to recalculate based on their weapon speed. As a DM, I don't want to have to do that for every NPC under my control. And another problem with weapon speed is that it didn't make any sense. If you're armed with a two handed sword and I'm armed with a dagger, you're going to have the opportunity to strike me first before I can get close enough to stab you with the dagger.

That's not how weapon speed worked. You don't recalculate anything.

Weapon speed broke ties on the initiative roll (which happen fairly frequently on a d6) as to who strikes first in the melee phase.

Weapon length determines who struck first in a charge and ignored the initiative roll entirely.

 

[billd91]

That's not how weapon speed worked. You don't recalculate anything.

Weapon speed broke ties on the initiative roll (which happen fairly frequently on a d6) as to who strikes first in the melee phase.

Weapon length determines who struck first in a charge and ignored the initiative roll entirely.

That was 1e. Weapon speeds figured into initiatives in 2e and that's probably what MGibster was referring to.

 

[Knorrrssk]

That was 1e. Weapon speeds figured into initiatives in 2e and that's probably what MGibster was referring to.

You're right, I'd forgotten it was an optional rule in 2e. And that 2e ignored weapon length entirely.

 

[James Gasik]

Weapon speed slowed things down a great deal. You roll initiative and then everyone has to take the time to recalculate based on their weapon speed. As a DM, I don't want to have to do that for every NPC under my control. And another problem with weapon speed is that it didn't make any sense. If you're armed with a two handed sword and I'm armed with a dagger, you're going to have the opportunity to strike me first before I can get close enough to stab you with the dagger.

Another issue is that most monsters have natural weapons which have a speed factor of...1? I think it was one. So while the players are fiddling around with their slow cumbersome weapons, they're already being mauled by a bear, lol.

 

[billd91]

Another issue is that most monsters have natural weapons which have a speed factor of...1? I think it was one. So while the players are fiddling around with their slow cumbersome weapons, they're already being mauled by a bear, lol.

It was based on the size of the creature. Tiny +0, Small/Medium +3, Large +6, Huge +9.