Pathfinder 2E So, pre-Revised books...

[Thomas Shey]

What a headache.

It probably is, but as noted, a lot of the spell schools were awfully arbitrary once you got away from, say, Divination. They showed all the signs fitting in things after the fact (which, of course, they were since many of those spells had been created before the schools were).

 

[Velderan]

It probably is, but as noted, a lot of the spell schools were awfully arbitrary once you got away from, say, Divination. They showed all the signs fitting in things after the fact (which, of course, they were since many of those spells had been created before the schools were).

I grew to hate the spell detect magic in 5e because of the “and you learn its school of magic, if any” part of the spell. Published material never stated what school a magical trap might be and half the magic items were a best guess. I don’t miss having to deal with that.

 

[Alzrius]

I grew to hate the spell detect magic in 5e because of the “and you learn its school of magic, if any” part of the spell. Published material never stated what school a magical trap might be and half the magic items were a best guess. I don’t miss having to deal with that.

On that note, I know this isn't a 5E thread, but has there been any indication that they've addressed this for 5.5E (or whatever we're calling it now)?

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

What a headache.

Not much of one, I feel like necromancy as a non-game term is fairly intuitive.

 

[GobHag]

Just make it any spirit, vitality, and void spells be considered Necromancy

 

[dave2008]

Just make it any spirit, vitality, and void spells be considered Necromancy

I am not familiar with PF2e terms, but vitality spells are Necromancy? I would assume healing spells are vitality spells and you want to lump those in with necromancy? That doesn't seem correct to me.

 

[Justice and Rule]

I am not familiar with PF2e terms, but vitality spells are Necromancy? I would assume healing spells are vitality spells and you want to lump those in with necromancy? That doesn't seem correct to me.

Hookay. So.

There's a rather long history of debate around where something like "Cure Light Wounds" goes when it comes to schools. Back in 1E & 2E, it was Necromantic, under the assumption that it was dealt with life and death (or so I always heard). That got changed in 3E to Conjuration, from what I understood because people really didn't like that spell getting caught up in the whole necromancy thing, so it was now more about summoning positive energy or whatever. We can skip 4E since schools didn't matter, and now in 5E it's... evocation, which is an even weirder place for it to be.

Which is why I always like to use it as "Why spell schools are flawed", since it's a spell that doesn't fit into schools easily, and it also kind of exposes how the perception of different schools shapes how people react to them out of game.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Its odd, but years ago when we did a color magic based alternate magic system for RuneQuest (based roughly on some earlier work to emulate Witchworld magic) we managed to bin things fairly well without too much pushback; of course we had more categories and some of the spells were binned symbiotically. It also didn't hurt that even the two most negatively viewed colors (Purple and Black Magic) had some benign or quasi-benign things in them (Black involved necromantic powers, but also repelling the dead--and resurrection). If anything, people were sometimes a little startled that basic healing and combat augmentation were both in Red.

 

[dave2008]

Which is why I always like to use it as "Why spell schools are flawed", since it's a spell that doesn't fit into schools easily, and it also kind of exposes how the perception of different schools shapes how people react to them out of game.

Thank you for the history lesson

I guess I don't necessarily think spell schools are flawed, but the implementation definitely is. I actually would prefer a new more rigorous look at them that cut, added, and adjusted them to make more sense. Include maybe even eliminating some spells and schools and adding new ones. I also wish it was more baked into the mechanics, not less.

OK, end of rant!

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

I am not familiar with PF2e terms, but vitality spells are Necromancy? I would assume healing spells are vitality spells and you want to lump those in with necromancy? That doesn't seem correct to me.

But more directly: Yes, positive became vitality in the remaster, as you can see from the linked remaster version at the top and heal was originally a necromancy school spell.