Pathfinder 2E So, pre-Revised books...

[Thomas Shey]

So, now that people have at least a pretty good grasp of what degree things have changed post-Revised, I've got a question for those of you who do:

Besides the four Revised books, I've got a couple of things on my PF2e wishlist I've been planning to pick up at some point, specifically the Book of the Dead and the Dark Archive (I'm still considering Howl of the Wild and Rage of the Elements). Are there likely to be any problems fitting them in with the Revised version of the rules?

 

[Justice and Rule]

So, now that people have at least a pretty good grasp of what degree things have changed post-Revised, I've got a question for those of you who do:

Besides the four Revised books, I've got a couple of things on my PF2e wishlist I've been planning to pick up at some point, specifically the Book of the Dead and the Dark Archive (I'm still considering Howl of the Wild and Rage of the Elements). Are there likely to be any problems fitting them in with the Revised version of the rules?

I have Book of the Dead and it's okay but I kind of got it for the rules completionist in me? I think it's largely okay when it comes to the revision, though there are still a few things that reference using "necromancy spells", which is obviously not going to fly in a school-less world. It's got some neat things in it (undead eidolons and companions, some interesting archetypes whose specific usefulness I never really judged), but it's obviously got a lot of magic-themed stuff that might make things difficult. I will say that it does have a good amount of creatures to use for campaigns, as well as design stuff for undead stuff you can use on the fly. It's not a bad buy, but it obviously has a very specific theme.

I will say I like The Dark Archive a bit more. Being able to turn monsters into "cryptids" which are vulnerable to Knowledge Checks and other weirdness is stuff I can use more. The Thaumaturge and Psychic are both very cool, if a bit more complicated, when it comes to classes. Really, in general The Dark Archive feels a bit of a better buy, though I would be wary of what might change with the Psychic given that it's a spellcasting class, as well as stuff like the new Witch patrons they have in the book. But I find the book to be easier to integrate into a campaign compared to BotD.

Howl of the Wild and Rage of the Elements were basically made with the revision in mind ,but I know that a few spells/powers in Rage of the Elements have some desperately needed errata for a few powers which were basically missing crucial things like an area effect spell that was missing the whole "area of effect" part. I think the errata has been delivered in the last month or two, though, so it should be good.

 

[payn]

I have Book of the Dead and it's okay but I kind of got it for the rules completionist in me? I think it's largely okay when it comes to the revision, though there are still a few things that reference using "necromancy spells", which is obviously not going to fly in a school-less world. It's got some neat things in it (undead eidolons and companions, some interesting archetypes whose specific usefulness I never really judged), but it's obviously got a lot of magic-themed stuff that might make things difficult. I will say that it does have a good amount of creatures to use for campaigns, as well as design stuff for undead stuff you can use on the fly. It's not a bad buy, but it obviously has a very specific theme.

I will say I like The Dark Archive a bit more. Being able to turn monsters into "cryptids" which are vulnerable to Knowledge Checks and other weirdness is stuff I can use more. The Thaumaturge and Psychic are both very cool, if a bit more complicated, when it comes to classes. Really, in general The Dark Archive feels a bit of a better buy, though I would be wary of what might change with the Psychic given that it's a spellcasting class, as well as stuff like the new Witch patrons they have in the book. But I find the book to be easier to integrate into a campaign compared to BotD.

Howl of the Wild and Rage of the Elements were basically made with the revision in mind ,but I know that a few spells/powers in Rage of the Elements have some desperately needed errata for a few powers which were basically missing crucial things like an area effect spell that was missing the whole "area of effect" part. I think the errata has been delivered in the last month or two, though, so it should be good.

Out of curiosity, what are the issues with that could be caused by spells going schooless?

 

[Justice and Rule]

Out of curiosity, what are the issues with that could be caused by spells going schooless?

There are a few (I don't know how many) that specifically key off of the schools. For example, Sepulchral Sublimation basically lets you kill a minion and then you can cast a Necromancy spell equal to half the minion's level without wasting a slot. Cool feat with cool flavor (almost a villain feat, tbh), but you'd need to modify it a bit to make it work now given that there isn't a Necromancy school.

 

[payn]

There are a few (I don't know how many) that specifically key off of the schools. For example, Sepulchral Sublimation basically lets you kill a minion and then you can cast a Necromancy spell equal to half the minion's level without wasting a slot. Cool feat with cool flavor (almost a villain feat, tbh), but you'd need to modify it a bit to make it work now given that there isn't a Necromancy school.

Hmm, would you have to pick out an entire list of applicable spells in the remaster then? Kinda sucks that you cant have specific spells like that.

 

[Velderan]

Howl of the Wild and Rage of the Elements were basically made with the revision in mind ,but I know that a few spells/powers in Rage of the Elements have some desperately needed errata for a few powers which were basically missing crucial things like an area effect spell that was missing the whole "area of effect" part. I think the errata has been delivered in the last month or two, though, so it should be good.

Rage of Elements has a lot of errata so it's possible they addressed the area of effect issues you're mentioning. Skimming through the updates, I see a fair amount of spells or abilities have a distance added. Otherwise yeah, I remember them saying Rage of Elements was the first rulebook designed post-remaster so it should largely be good.

I'm about halfway through Howl of the Wild and I like the book so far. There's a couple spells I liked that my players are already using (Camel Spit and Confusing Cry come to mind). I really need to finish reading that, I just got the invoice email for my subscription order for Player Core 2 so that should be shipping soon and I'll likely drop what I'm currently reading to dig into that when it gets here.

 

[Justice and Rule]

Hmm, would you have to pick out an entire list of applicable spells in the remaster then? Kinda sucks that you cant have specific spells like that.

You're not wrong. I get removing Spell Schools and on one hand, I do kind of like it? We don't need to try and create specific wizarding schools based around these rather controversial and often forced ideas of "schools" that always have weird additions or exclusions (Hellooooooo, Cure Wounds/Heal and whatever school you think it needs to be).

However, it was nice and neat to be able to give magic more definition, like colors and such. The Secrets of Magic book had a lot of cool things about the feel of each school that was really evocative and useful to go beyond just "The magic is this color, thus it is this school". And there is some value in creating those sorts of spell lists.

If I were to make a guess, they'll probably change it so that any spell that uses Void Energy rather than "Necromancy", which will basically be close enough for most cases.

Rage of Elements has a lot of errata so it's possible they addressed the area of effect issues you're mentioning. Skimming through the updates, I see a fair amount of spells or abilities have a distance added. Otherwise yeah, I remember them saying Rage of Elements was the first rulebook designed post-remaster so it should largely be good.

I'm about halfway through Howl of the Wild and I like the book so far. There's a couple spells I liked that my players are already using (Camel Spit and Confusing Cry come to mind). I really need to finish reading that, I just got the invoice email for my subscription order for Player Core 2 so that should be shipping soon and I'll likely drop what I'm currently reading to dig into that when it gets here.

Rage of the Elements was clearly on a bit of a time crunch with so much more going on than I'm guessing they expected, so they lost a bunch of things in it. It's not broken, but clearly it needed to have stuff added in. Howl of the Wild does have a bunch of cool things and variations on animals that I find useful. It's a very solid book that gives a bunch of classes some new flavoring.

 

[GobHag]

Book of the Dead is a strictly lore and GM Monster Manual book, most of the Undead archetype is bad though Skeleton ancestry is decent.

Lost Omens:Impossible Lands is my fav LO so far since the lore in the book is the most interesting thing as a 'setting' book.

Lost Omens Tian Xia World Guide is above average, has some nice things there but doesn't consistently spark joy like Impossible Lands did.

Dark Archive is good for the classes, decent spells and character options, and also provides one-shot adventures in them. ALso cool ass monster extra templates plus a bit of weird fiction lore to thrown in, I like the cult stuff personally for that.

Rise of Elements is one I love, definitely one of the best form an 'elemental plane' can go for mid-level to high-level adventuring. Also Kineticists, a love letter to me personally

 

[The-Magic-Sword]

Hmm, would you have to pick out an entire list of applicable spells in the remaster then? Kinda sucks that you cant have specific spells like that.

Since Necromancy would no longer be a game term, I guess it would really just be spells that fit the necromancy flavor instead-- the table could spot rule them.

 

[payn]

Since Necromancy would no longer be a game term, I guess it would really just be spells that fit the necromancy flavor instead-- the table could spot rule them.

What a headache.