Slightly tricky brooch of Shielding question (was easy)

[carborundum]

A brooch of shielding absorbs magic missile damage. Does this also work for empowered or maximised or other metamagic variants of magic missile? They count as a higher level of spell, so I just wanted to make sure...

 

[Folly]

"Metamagic feats are not taken into account when determining whether a spell can be countered" -from the magic overview section under counterspelling

Since the broach is made with shield, which is the counter to magic missle, I would say that applying metamagic feats would not prevent the broach from achieving its purpose. If the magic missle comes from a different spell then it wouldn't (I have seen a bouncing magic missle spell from somewhere)

 

[jaelis]

I agree. Metamagic feats don't change the identity of the spell, so if you're protected from the spell, you're protected from any metamagicked version.

 

[carborundum]

Thanks guys! For the answer and where to look - I'll be able to find it when the player with some sort of Libris Mortis metamagic level draining magic missiles looks disgruntled!

 

[Artoomis]

Thanks guys! For the answer and where to look - I'll be able to find it when the player with some sort of Libris Mortis metamagic level draining magic missiles looks disgruntled!

No... if the spell is modified to drain levels, that's a different deal:

This appears to be a piece of silver or gold jewelry used to fasten a cloak or cape. In addition to this mundane task, it can absorb magic missiles of the sort generated by spell or spell-like ability. A brooch can absorb up to 101 points of damage from magic missiles before it melts and becomes useless.

A level draining effect is not damage. I would not allow the broach to abosrb level-draining magic missles.

 

[Artoomis]

Double post.

 

[carborundum]

Hmmm, suddenly it's not such an open and shut case!

The feat in question is Fell Drain, and it is a metamagic effect with a +2 level cost. It basically says "any living creature that is dealt damage by the spell also gains a negative level."

If a Shield stops a magic missile regardless of metamagic (and these feats didn't exist when that was written) then it does no damage and gives no level drain.

If the level draining metamagic has altered the original spell so much that the shield doesn't recognise it anymore (by packing it full of negative energy), then where do you draw THAT line? Which metamagic effects would get a magic missile through a shield, and which are too ... funky?

 

[Selganor]

The additional level drain is something like poison is for "normal" attacks.

if you don't do damage (doesn't matter why), you don't suffer from the additional effect (which clearly states "...that is dealt damage by the spell...")

 

[Nifft]

Hmmm, suddenly it's not such an open and shut case!

It still is open and shut, and you've just posted why!

The feat in question is Fell Drain, and it is a metamagic effect with a +2 level cost. It basically says "any living creature that is dealt damage by the spell also gains a negative level."

Yep, so an effect which prevents damage from a magic missile also prevents the negative level. (If the negative level were independent of damage, there would be some wiggle room here, but it's not.)

If a Shield stops a magic missile regardless of metamagic (and these feats didn't exist when that was written) then it does no damage and gives no level drain.

If the level draining metamagic has altered the original spell so much that the shield doesn't recognise it anymore (by packing it full of negative energy), then where do you draw THAT line? Which metamagic effects would get a magic missile through a shield, and which are too ... funky?

There's no such thing as "not recognized". The spell in question is a magic missile spell, and its damage is blocked by both shield and a brooch of shielding. The negative level is contingent on damage; thus, it is negated.

A Quickened magic missile isn't "too fast" for a shield spell; a Fell Drain magic missile isn't "too negative" for a shield spell. Metamagic doesn't negate counter-magic.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Blue]

A brooch of shielding absorbs magic missile damage. Does this also work for empowered or maximised or other metamagic variants of magic missile? They count as a higher level of spell, so I just wanted to make sure...

As a side point, they still count as 1st level. Heighten is the only metamagic that actually changes the spell level. So a minor globe of invulnerably will happily stop an empowered, maximized, fell drain magic missile since it's still a 1st level spell. Though this is more important for spells with saves since saves are level dependant.

The brooch stops damage from magic missile so no damage gets through. This is magic missile, so it's stopped. Even if it was heightened or other things, the shield spell and the brooch of shielding specifically stops this one spell - there no "doesn't recognize" aspect.

The fell drain metamagic feat specifies that it drains only if the spell deals damage, and since it deals no damage, no level drain.

Cheers,
=Blue(23)