D&D 5E Revised Proficiency Bonus House-Rule: Suggestions? (+)

[Argyle King]

Are you open to trying proficiency dice instead of flat bonuses?

 

[Stalker0]

for people saying this is more complex than 3e..... more complex than skill ranks? No, absolutely not.

Its certainly more complex than 5e, but that's the point.

My biggest notes:
1) You are giving a pretty decent boost to lvls 2-4 by getting a +3 to attacks and certain saves much earlier than normal. Not sure if that's ideal.
2) Likely the biggest winner here is in saving throws. This will allow you to increase a lot of your off-saving throws at the higher levels when that becomes more of an issue, so that part is nice.
3) Ultimately you are treating an attack bonus, saving throw bonus, and a skill proficiency with equal strength. They are not...skills are generally weaker. So either there should be some straight up skill proficiencies, or something like you can boost 2 skills instead of a save, or xyz.

 

[ezo]

I think your idea would be more understandable if you were to design a character using this game mechanic idea of yours. Show us how it works by example.

That is what this was for:

But if you want "details" and a more concrete example/flow, here's an example (using the sample chart).

Fighter sample proficiencies (at 1st level):

• Simple Weapons +2
• Martial Weapons +2
• Strength saving throw +2
• Constitution saving throw +2
• Animal Handling+2
• Athletics+2
• Intimidation+2
• Survival+2
• Vehicles (Land) +2
• Smith's tools+2

At second level, you have three +1 proficiency improvements.

• Martial Weapons +3
• Animal Handling +3
• Vehicles (Land) +3

At 3rd level, you gain two +1 improvements.

• Strength saving throw +3
• Athletics +3

And so on... Your limitation is Maximum Proficiency for your current level. And if you want to use an improvement for a new proficiency, it begins at +2 and then you improve it using the same rules.

That's the basics anyway. If you have any particular questions, let me know.

 

[ezo]

Are you open to trying proficiency dice instead of flat bonuses?

Sure. I'd love to as long as the players don't mind the extra bit of math on each roll...

My biggest notes:
1) You are giving a pretty decent boost to lvls 2-4 by getting a +3 to attacks and certain saves much earlier than normal. Not sure if that's ideal.

I don't think the +1 would be a big deal, frankly, especially when levels pass quickly.

2) Likely the biggest winner here is in saving throws. This will allow you to increase a lot of your off-saving throws at the higher levels when that becomes more of an issue, so that part is nice.

Yep. I agree. Even if you never improve them beyond gaining them. You might want a save at +2 for a single improvment.

3) Ultimately you are treating an attack bonus, saving throw bonus, and a skill proficiency with equal strength. They are not...skills are generally weaker. So either there should be some straight up skill proficiencies, or something like you can boost 2 skills instead of a save, or xyz.

Yeah, this always a concern.

Another (even simpler) option is to just do "groups": weapons (including spellcasting maybe?) or "combat", saves, and skills. Instead of improving things individually, you get to improve a group when you level up.

For example, 1st level is:
Weapons +2
Saves +2
Skills +2

At 2nd level you might improve weapons:
Weapons +3
Saves +2
Skills +2

3rd level might be saves:
Weapons +3
Saves +3
Skills +2

4th level would be no increase since that is the ASI level.

5th level would be skills:
Weapons +3
Saves +3
Skills +3

So, at 5th you are +3 across-the-board. Repeat the idea for 6th, 7th, skipping 8th, and 9th levels to bring it all up to +4.

But this doesn't have anything to help with gaining new proficiencies so I'm not sold on it.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

What is complicated about adding two or three improvments per level, with the maximum equal to RAW proficiency for your level +1?

It's not like it's rocket science or anything, but obviously it's way more complicated than the base rules - which is kind of the point, you're trying to solve an issue with the base rules being too overly simplistic.

This is a mixed bag idea as it will just force players to make up bad/stupid reasons why they need to roll a certain skill checks if you put it as mandatory to improve a skill on leveling up.

Sure, you might get some cool roleplay stunt out of that, but IMHO, mostly it will be some dumb activity to force a skill check.

Do you really want to wast time on players describing how they are doing jumping jacks so they may roll Athletics and/or Acrobatics?

I understand the appeal, but this raises the fiddly-level much to high and encourages players to use skills in strange ways just so they can try to improve them later on...

Both of these posts would be valid concerns, I was just throwing the idea out there for consideration, I'm not sold yet on whether I like it or not.

On one hand I think it would work because if a player has to go out of their way to create contrived reasons to roll a skillcheck, then why would they even want to level it up in the first place? If they don't ACTUALLY use the skill naturally, why bother? On the other hand, encouraging degenerate gameplay may not be worth the risk. I think it sounds pretty fun but I could see it backfiring too

 

[Blue]

Except for 20th, it's 3 steps and then the next step is the +1 for Proficiency. I say steal the idea of Incremental Advances from 13th Age. Split up a couple of the ways Proficiency helps the majority of characters, say skills, attack/DC, saves, and class/race features -- though it could be anything, and could be more granular. Each level you pick one of those to get a premature +1, as if your proficiency had gone up. Player picks which. On the actual step it goes up "officially" for everything.

So a PC hits second, and gets an effective +3 PROF for class/racial features because they have some cool stuff they want to use more. At 3rd they increase to +3 PROF for attacks/DCs. At 4th they increase for SKILLs, and at 5th it's official and it's for everything like saves and stuff that doesn't fall in the categories.

Smooth progression, more customization choices, stays close to existing math.

 

[Jahydin]

Pretty cool!

For me, I couldn't stand how random Skill Checks were, so came up with this cool little system.

2d10 for Ability Checks:​

Use 2d10 in place of d20 for Ability Checks.

Skills all characters should know:​

At character generation, a player may select three skills to be trained in:

Acrobatics	Investigation
Athletics	Insight
Endurance	Perception

These represent skills that all adventurers could be familiar with.

Note: Constitution(Endurance) is a new skill that is rolled when testing a character’s physical limits, such as a long forced march or ignoring the cold while traveling through a snow storm. Anytime Athletics is offered as a choice, so too is Endurance.

Note2: If skill chosen is available to the class/race, then character is now proficient in that skill!

Trained Skills:​

In D&D 5e, all players have a chance to make skill checks. Although the 2D10 rule helps make things a little less random, I still wanted those trained or familiar in the skill to matter, as well as cut down on group die rolling (I feel that stalls the game). Thus, the following rule was born:

In addition to the skill proficiencies characters select as normal, characters are also considered “trained” in all skills available to them via class or race. All other skills are considered “untrained”.

Checks are made accordingly:

Untrained:	d10 + Ability Mod
Trained:	2d10 + Ability Mod
Proficient:	2d10 + Ability Mod + Proficiency Bonus

This means if you’re untrained, it’s probably not worth trying!

Note: Being proficient is considered being trained for other rule considerations.

Note2: Bards get to choose 11 skills to be trained in.

2d10 for Ability Checks:​

DCs for checks:

Very Easy	Easy	Average	Hard	Very Hard	Impossible	Miracle
9	12	15	18	21	25	30

This change makes it so everyone with a little skill has a shot making easy checks, but only those skilled or naturally talented can consistently make higher checks.

Note: Advantage is 3d10, drop lowest! Disadvantage is 3d10 drop the highest!

Group Skill Checks​

To make group checks as fast as possible, one roll will be made! One player makes the check as normal, but for every other player that is helping and that is trained, he adds d10 to his dice pool. When the roll is made, he keeps only the two highest results.

There may be times when those who are untrained with disadvantage MUST participate, such as a fighter in heavy armor for party stealth check. In those cases, that person would subtract a d10 from the dice pool! Most of the time though, those who are unskilled simply can not participate.

 

[ezo]

Except for 20th, it's 3 steps and then the next step is the +1 for Proficiency. I say steal the idea of Incremental Advances from 13th Age. Split up a couple of the ways Proficiency helps the majority of characters, say skills, attack/DC, saves, and class/race features -- though it could be anything, and could be more granular. Each level you pick one of those to get a premature +1, as if your proficiency had gone up. Player picks which. On the actual step it goes up "officially" for everything.

So a PC hits second, and gets an effective +3 PROF for class/racial features because they have some cool stuff they want to use more. At 3rd they increase to +3 PROF for attacks/DCs. At 4th they increase for SKILLs, and at 5th it's official and it's for everything like saves and stuff that doesn't fall in the categories.

Smooth progression, more customization choices, stays close to existing math.

Like this... sort of.

Another (even simpler) option is to just do "groups": weapons (including spellcasting maybe?) or "combat", saves, and skills. Instead of improving things individually, you get to improve a group when you level up.

For example, 1st level is:
Weapons +2
Saves +2
Skills +2

At 2nd level you might improve weapons:
Weapons +3
Saves +2
Skills +2

3rd level might be saves:
Weapons +3
Saves +3
Skills +2

4th level would be no increase since that is the ASI level.

5th level would be skills:
Weapons +3
Saves +3
Skills +3

So, at 5th you are +3 across-the-board. Repeat the idea for 6th, 7th, skipping 8th, and 9th levels to bring it all up to +4.

But this doesn't have anything to help with gaining new proficiencies so I'm not sold on it.

 

[Blue]

Like this... sort of.

Ah, what I get for responding to the first post instead of reading the whole thread. Ya, you have it.

 

[ezo]

Ah, what I get for responding to the first post instead of reading the whole thread. Ya, you have it.

It happens to the best of us.