D&D 5E Revised Proficiency Bonus House-Rule: Suggestions? (+)

[ezo]

Something that has always bothered myself and some of those I play with is the sudden bump that occurs when proficiency bonus increases. This is a quick, first-draft sketch of a way to "fix" that issue, although we understand the design was for simplicity.

First, I'll say that we find the general proficiency bonus in 5E as too broad, but found skill ranks, etc. from 3E too fiddly. I'm hoping this is something in between that will work.

Second, this is just the baseline concept. Classes like Bard, Ranger, and Rogue would have special provisions for their greater "skill monkeyness", and we already have some thoughts for things like expertise.

Third, this allows level-by-level improvement in something, which the player gets to choose to improve, and provides an easy method for gaining new proficiencies.

Finally, as a (+) thread, so please keep that in mind and thanks! I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

CONCEPT:
Each PC begins with two "weapons" (label them melee and ranged if you prefer), two saves, four skill, and two tool proficiencies; all at +2. Classes with the spellcasting or pact magic feature must replace either a weapon or skill proficiency with a "spellcasting" proficiency.

When you gain an even level (2nd, 4th, 6th, etc.) you gain three +1 improvement bonuses; gaining the odd levels (3rd, 5th, 7th, etc.) grants two +1 improvement bonuses, as shown on the Proficiency Improvements table.

You can use an improvement bonus to increase a proficiency by +1, subject to the Maximum Proficiency, or to gain a new weapon (if used individually), saving throw, skill, or tool proficiency (at +2); or to learn a new language.

Creating a character at higher levels. If you want to use this concept for PCs beyond 1st level, start with the Base Proficiency beyond 1st for the starting level. Apply the cumulative improvements, +1 each, to your proficiencies. For example, if you want to create a 7th-level PC, you have the proficiencies noted at 1st level (two weapons, two saves, etc.) all at +3 (the Base Proficiency beyond 1st for a 7th-level PC), and then choose five (5) improvements to those proficiencies (from +3 to +4), or to gain any new proficiencies.

Example: below is an example showing how you might improve proficiencies from 1st to 17th levels. You'll notice "across-the-board" that proficiency is +3 at 5th level, +4 at 9th level, +5 at 13th level, and +6 at 17th level--mirroring when those proficiency "bumps" occur.

 

[GMMichael]

This looks more fiddly than the 3e system to me. If proficiency-up is too much of a bump for you, try requiring a PC to make a successful check in each skill before it gets the full proficiency increase.

 

[DEFCON 1]

For me the easiest way to deal with the proficiency bump is to remember that the exact same bump happens to all manner of abilities / skills etc. when I gain a +2 to an ASI, or any number of magic items or spells, etc. etc. etc. So the proficiency bonus bump is nothing special nor different.

My attack bonus going up by 1 point because my STR score modifier went up, or I got a magic sword, or the Cleric cast Bless on me (and rolled poorly), or my prof bonus bumped... they are all the same +1 bonus. Nothing is different, nothing is special. So if I'm okay with getting a +1 magic longsword... why wouldn't I be okay with my proficiency bonus rising a point at Level 5?

 

[Stormonu]

Taking a bit of a card from 1E Unearthed Arcana...

Start with the base proficiency as noted above. Every time the character gains a level they get Xd6. These dice can be split between Combat (Melee or Ranged), Saves (by ability score), Magic (By School, Domain or Subclass list) and Skills (Languages are counted as skills) as the player sees fit. Each point on the d6 is 1/10 of an advancement point. Fractional points are kept between levels. You can't put more dice in an area than the lowest proficiency bonus you have for all areas (min 1).

For example, Bob the fighter goes from 1st to 2nd level. Assume he gets 6d6 advancement dice. He decides to put 2d6 into Melee Combat, 2d6 into Wisdom saves (which is currently +0), and 2d6 into Athletics. For melee combat, he rolls 2 and 5, for 7, giving him a bonus of +2.7 (or +2). He lucks out with Wisdom and rolls a 6 and a 6, netting him a +1.2 (+1) pseudo-proficiency bonus to his Wisdom save; when he gets to +2, he'll actually be "proficient"). Lastly, he rolls for Athletics and comes up with a 2 and a 4, giving him a +2.6 (or +2) for his Athletics proficiency bonus. Modify the die size and amount for how quickly or slowly you want the bonus to advance.

 

[Horwath]

Give every skill automatic "expertise" scaling modified to 2 +1/2 level(round up) of maximum skill ranks.
you have a number of skill "points" equal to number of skills you are proficient multiplied by (2+1/2 level)

I.E. if you have 6 skills and you are 5th level you have 6×(2+2,5) skill points, that is 6×4,5 or 27pts. With maximum of 5 pts in a single skill.

Now for expertise, we might just steal from rogues reliable talent here:
Expertise: pick a skill that you have at least 3 ranks in it, gain +2 to the chosen skill and every d20 roll for that skill of 1-9 is treated at a 10.

Now elves keen senses can be: Expertise in Perception, even without needed 3 ranks.
so elves even with 8 Wisdom will have a minimum of 11 for Perception roll, with a max of 21.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

This is both way too complicated but also awesome enough that I'm tempted to consider the complexity worth it.

I kind of want to make it even more complicated by saying the player can only choose to improve skills that they used X number of times during the previous level. I've always loved games where you level up your skills by actually using them.

 

[Horwath]

I kind of want to make it even more complicated by saying the player can only choose to improve skills that they used X number of times during the previous level. I've always loved games where you level up your skills by actually using them.

This is a mixed bag idea as it will just force players to make up bad/stupid reasons why they need to roll a certain skill checks if you put it as mandatory to improve a skill on leveling up.

Sure, you might get some cool roleplay stunt out of that, but IMHO, mostly it will be some dumb activity to force a skill check.

Do you really want to wast time on players describing how they are doing jumping jacks so they may roll Athletics and/or Acrobatics?

 

[ezo]

This looks more fiddly than the 3e system to me. If proficiency-up is too much of a bump for you, try requiring a PC to make a successful check in each skill before it gets the full proficiency increase.

I suppose it is a matter of taste, but it is less fiddly to me.

As far as making a check before improvement? No, thank you. Random rolls for such things wouldn't appeal.

For me the easiest way to deal with the proficiency bump is to remember that the exact same bump happens to all manner of abilities / skills etc. when I gain a +2 to an ASI, or any number of magic items or spells, etc. etc. etc. So the proficiency bonus bump is nothing special nor different.

My attack bonus going up by 1 point because my STR score modifier went up, or I got a magic sword, or the Cleric cast Bless on me (and rolled poorly), or my prof bonus bumped... they are all the same +1 bonus. Nothing is different, nothing is special. So if I'm okay with getting a +1 magic longsword... why wouldn't I be okay with my proficiency bonus rising a point at Level 5?

For one thing suddenly improving, not a big deal, for a dozen things all at once? A bit too much for us.

Taking a bit of a card from 1E Unearthed Arcana...

This involves random rolling and seems a bit more fiddly to me.

Give every skill automatic "expertise" scaling modified to 2 +1/2 level(round up) of maximum skill ranks.
you have a number of skill "points" equal to number of skills you are proficient multiplied by (2+1/2 level)

Even more fiddly (at first glance anyway).

This is both way too complicated but also awesome enough that I'm tempted to consider the complexity worth it.

What is complicated about adding two or three improvments per level, with the maximum equal to RAW proficiency for your level +1?

I kind of want to make it even more complicated by saying the player can only choose to improve skills that they used X number of times during the previous level. I've always loved games where you level up your skills by actually using them.

I understand the appeal, but this raises the fiddly-level much to high and encourages players to use skills in strange ways just so they can try to improve them later on...

This is a mixed bag idea as it will just force players to make up bad/stupid reasons why they need to roll a certain skill checks if you put it as mandatory to improve a skill on leveling up.

Yep, this.

 

[Corinnguard]

For one thing suddenly improving, not a big deal, for a dozen things all at once? A bit too much for us.

I think your idea would be more understandable if you were to design a character using this game mechanic idea of yours. Show us how it works by example.

 

[GMMichael]

As far as making a check before improvement? No, thank you. Random rolls for such things wouldn't appeal.

If you misunderstood, my idea was not an additional roll. Definitely not a random one. It's like @DrJawaPhD 's suggestion of getting better by doing things:

Secreto, the stealthy assassin, has stealth proficiency. He just leveled up (mostly because his DM is cool and awards XP for sneaking past guards), and his proficiency bonus just went from 2 to 3. His character sheet, like many others, has a line for his total Stealth bonus which while leveling up does not equal his Dex bonus plus Proficiency bonus. Secreto doesn't change this number until after his next successful Dex (stealth) check. Then he can assign the bump (which no longer happens as a bump, but simply and incrementally).