D&D General Religion in D&D: Your Take

[cbwjm]

My gods are in no way dependent on worship, however I was thinking of having a setting where all gods are demigods and the faith of their worshippers increases their power up through the various tiers of power but even a forgotten god is still a demigod and could rise in power once more if they actively seek worshippers, something which may be difficult in areas with established pantheons.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

So what? Just do it differently in your own game if you want to. I don't see the problem.

I would like the genre labelled "fantasy" to offer more diversity of thought and creativity.

Also, for the bazillionth time, I desire to play as well as run. "Just run a game you would like to play in" is utterly useless advice for someone who wants to play.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I would like the genre labelled "fantasy" to offer more diversity of thought and creativity.

Also, for the bazillionth time, I desire to play as well as run. "Just run a game you would like to play in" is utterly useless advice for someone who wants to play.

The genre offers a wide variety of thoughts and ideas. Official D&D rather less than that.

And aren't you a player in @Hussar 's game? I'm sure his ideas aren't all the same stuff you find so "overdone".

 

[EzekielRaiden]

The genre offers a wide variety of thoughts and ideas. Official D&D rather less than that.

We've had the argument to death. What is possible in the hobby is, unfortunately, rather less relevant than what is official for most players.

And aren't you a player in @Hussar 's game? I'm sure his ideas aren't all the same stuff you find so "overdone".

Hasn't come up, but yes, I am in his game and do enjoy it. The scope of the game is rather lower down, and as I was invited very kindly as a newcomer, I have endeavored to keep any requests small and (relatively) simple. I don't want to wear out my welcome.

 

[Maxperson]

Can you tell me what you are referencing in Greyhawk for Gods warring against other gods?

Iuz is in the world and led the Greyhawk Wars, but that was mostly mortal politics. St. Cuthbert is said to be against him but I don't remember the setting saying it has come to a direct god on god fight though I have seen references that it could.

Correlon and Lolth as a war between gods gets included because the nonhuman gods are incorporated, though not particularly Greyhawk specific.

Hextor and Heironeous are described as clashing and fighting and seeking to destroy each other but that seems mostly it that I can think of.

So I am now home and can look at the 1e DMG. It says the following.

"The source of a deity's god heads is in some way connected to his or her earthly worshipers, though in what manner the gods derive this power is a mystery totally beyond mortal (or immortal) comprehension. However, it is true that a god's power often increases or decreases as the number of his worshipers varies. Thus deities, and clerics as their agents, constantly try to increase the quantity and quality of their worshipers."

So a god, which would include 1e Greyhawk, is directly tied to worshippers, but may not always be connected through increase or decrease in the number of worshippers.

 

[Maxperson]

It's certainly not the most helpful way to do it if you want to have the focus on the faithful and not of on the gods. One of the most common complains I've read about the Forgotten Realms is how the focus is too much on the gods, to the detriment of other plots that do not feature gods. And not only fans complain about this, but also many Forgotten Realms' writers as well (including Ed Greenwood himself).

Yet, making worship/belief a prerequisite for the gods' level of power and even existence automatically makes the gods big players on the setting, because, well they need their worship juice. Which in turn makes it more difficult to make stories that do not feature gods, because, really it makes no sense no having the gods involved in a setting where their own existence depends on the level of their involvement.

It's neither helpful or unhelpful. It's entirely up to the DM whether to focus a game like that on gods or the religions, or to ignore both and have a completely non-religious game.

 

[Maxperson]

This take just like nullifies the fantasy of the fantasy genre. It makes all gods just a product of collective schizophrenia...

This is flat out wrong. Nothing I said implies some sort of mass delusions.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

I like a thriving afterlife, with every Outer Plane having lots of "outsiders" that were once souls of mortals. The Outer Planes are where mortal souls go to the Afterlife they are most Aligned with when they die. They are immortal, and if they "die" they respawn, sometimes in a reduced form if the destruction is severe enough. Souls can change their Alignment if they actually work towards doing so. Fallen Angels and Redeemed Fiends are things.

The Gods are far beyond the physical cannot walk the Material Plane, ever. Ever. They can't even leave their Plane as they are part of it. Leaving it will cause the plane to unravel. That is why they imbue the Faithful with power to work their will in the cosmos. Demigods/Aspects/Avatars are not really Gods, and don't have the God's real mentality. If a God sends an Avatar/Aspect and it dies, the God is weakened and must recover.

Spirits and Souls are not the same. Think of Spirits as Seeds, Bodies as the Trees, and Souls as the Fruit that ripen and pass on to the afterlife. Upon death, the spirit returns to one of the spirit worlds and may become a seed again in the future.

There are 5 Inner Spirit Planes.

• The Beastlands (not an Outer Plane) is the realm of Goodly Beast Spirits of Life, Light, Love, and Hope (think G-rated talking animals with halos, but not fully anthropomorphic)
• The Feywild is the realm of Chaotic Fey Spirits of Dreams, Imagination, Wonder, Fun, and Freedom. No lawful fey in my world.
• The Shadowfell is the realm of Evil Umbral Spirits of Death, Darkness, Hate, and Despair (undead/negative energy).
• The Mechanus (not an Outer Plane) is the realm of Lawful Chronal Spirits of Time, Order, Stability, and Control (imagine modrons and inevitables being spirits, not outer planar entities)
• The Crucible of Worlds or The Worldforge (replaces the Elemental Chaos with a spirit realm of Balance due to concordant opposition) is the realm of Elemental Spirits of Material Creation, Elemental Matter and Energy, Expansion, and Growth through Concordant Opposition.

 

[Micah Sweet]

We've had the argument to death. What is possible in the hobby is, unfortunately, rather less relevant than what is official for most players.

We have had this argument to death, and my stance hasn't changed. Official is meaningless outside the manipulation of legally owned and controlled IP.

 

[Scribe]

We have had this argument to death, and my stance hasn't changed. Official is meaningless outside the manipulation of legally owned and controlled IP.

A sense of legitimacy is not meaningless, it matters to a great many folks. Its why people care about the removal or update of canon material.