D&D (2024) Ranger 2024 is a bigger joke than Ranger 2014:

[CreamCloud0]

The argument is why a ranger would be able to do it automatically and without permission while druids, wizards, and sorcerers despite them being more knowledgeable about magic.

And again, a ranger shouldn't be casting spells withing enemy earshot anyway unless they are started combat.

Hunter's Mark has an hour duration for many reasons.

wizards, druids and sorcerers aren't archtypically depicted as 'stealth hunters' though, they might be more skilled in magic itself but they haven't dedicated themselves to cultivating that particular skill.

while i agree in general that they shouldn't intentionally be waiting until earshot sometimes that isn't always a possiblilty, sometimes you find an enemy in your path that you need to take care of and don't want to alert everyone else in the vicinity.

what if the spell i intend to use isn't hunter's mark? a spell that is also not compatible with the use of concentration required for a number of stealth-based spells.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Hunter's Mark from stealth, sure. Spend a round buffing up before striking is fine. Killing without a chance of being seen isn't good.

Yeah, generally (there is an exception now) when you deal damage to someone, they figure out where the damage came from.

 

[mellored]

Shall we veto every mechanic this evil DM might concievably inflict on this solo player that's being made to fight other PC builds?

Just any PC build that can solo an whole DM campaign.

Maybe as a higher level, limited use thing, they can damage and remain stealthed. But not as a normal thing.

 

[Minigiant]

wizards, druids and sorcerers aren't archtypically depicted as 'stealth hunters' though, they might be more skilled in magic itself but they haven't dedicated themselves to cultivating that particular skill

But casting spells without having to shout would be useful for anyone So if it was so simple that Rangers who are not masters of magic to figure out and anybody would be able to do it. It's barely explained how Rangers learn their exclusive spells outside of lost concepts passed down from master to apprentice without knowing how they actually work.

That's the crux of the issue because of Rangers don't know that much about the intricacies of magic. Most people would say the class that knows even less would be the Palladins.

So if Rangers can stealth cast, Everyone can.

 

[mellored]

I can't speak for everyone on this side of the fence, but here are my thoughts off the cuff;

Thematically, I personally like the idea that a Ranger's connection to their magic, their spells, is different than the other casters. Comes from their intuition/instinct, that's their forte. When another caster casts a Ranger spell, they can't approach it as a Ranger does, they have to supplement it with their practices.

Mechanically, just so they've got something kinda interesting going on that the others don't I suppose.

So... Invocations

Also, Ranger spells are more ranger-only than before. Or at least Ranger-with-one-other-subclass.

 

[Corinnguard]

If the Ranger was a subclass of the Fighter, then it ought to be written up as the druidic equivalent of the Eldritch Knight subclass.

Another possibility is the Ranger being a subclass of the Druid class and being the druidic equivalent of the Bladesinger Wizard. Circle of the Hunter.

 

[mellored]

But casting spells without having to shout would be useful for anyone So if it was so simple that Rangers who are not masters of magic to figure out and anybody would be able to do it. It's barely explained how Rangers learn their exclusive spells outside of lost concepts passed down from master to apprentice without knowing how they actually work.

I could easily see Ranger developing their own particular spells that can be cast from stealth. Like Hunter's Mark.

Or maybe a level 5 Sniper's Shot spell that deals damage without breaking stealth or invisibility.

Just not every spell. That's game breaking.

 

[Azzy]

I literally cannot wait for that, even if I disagree with the rule, at least it will be a settled matter for once.

Well, as settled as the ENWorld community will let it be.

 

[Rocker26a]

But casting spells without having to shout would be useful for anyone So if it was so simple that Rangers who are not masters of magic to figure out and anybody would be able to do it.

That's the crux of the issue because of Rangers don't know that much about the intricacies of magic. Most people would say the class that knows even less would be the Palladins.

So if Rangers can stealth cast, Everyone can.

You're treating magic and spellcasting as entirely homogenous, it's like an extension of that point "well why doesn't everyone in a fantasy setting learn magic", not everyone can. Not everyone has learned the right lessons, not everyone can apply the right lens... And even if something does click into place for you, that's only one approach amongst many. A Wizard is different to a Cleric is different to a Bard. And so for the half casters and beneath. "oh well these classes flatly know more about/practice more magic so they should have access to every practice" doesn't scan.

Like I was just reading some of Berserk this week, and there's a part where the gang go to the Elf homeland that's also home to a small conclave of mages. And they're dumbfounded by the two magic users in the group's ability to practice magic without drawing a magic circle first, nevermind the magic they actually demonstrate. That's what it reminds me of (obviously extremely different language and details for the magic, but nevertheless).

It's barely explained how Rangers learn their exclusive spells outside of lost concepts passed down from master to apprentice without knowing how they actually work.

I agree, but that's a solveable problem.

 

[Rocker26a]

So... Invocations

Also, Ranger spells are more ranger-only than before. Or at least Ranger-with-one-other-subclass.

Kinda similar I guess? I'd say it's closer to, how Warlocks always have their highest spell slot and get 'em back on a short rest. It's a mechanical expression of how their spells work/are accessed.