Proposal: Lower the Item level of the Endless Quiver

twilsemail

First Post
It was mentioned to me before, I just missed it the first time. Apologies.

As I said before, I don't really think a rule is necessary. If it happens, though, I'd rather it just be removing the annoying misquito bites of tracking ammo than lowering the level of an item.

Doesn't look like it's going up either way, so it doesn't really matter.
 

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KarinsDad

Adventurer
twils... please don't "vote" for judges. This is the second time I've mentioned this (though it may not have been you).

Yes, it was twilsemail last time too. You warned him back in February for this:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/5466155-post19.html

If the other judges vote officially, I will as well.

Ditto. Course, I have twilsemail to handle that chore for me. It's always best to delegate. ;)

Maybe I should just get myself a "NO" red rubber stamp. It'd save a lot of time. :D
 

Walking Dad

First Post
Still not happy with a NO for a proposal because everyone circumvent the problem unofficially ...

Yes, there is a problem, but we just all ignore it instead speaking about it :) so no to every general solution! :(
 

renau1g

First Post
We (or I should say at least I) feel that this is not enough of a problem to warrant a houserule. Just as I don't feel that the everlasting provisions should be houseruled.
 

Walking Dad

First Post
But is it no actual rules problem or is the problem widely ignored with the informal backing of the judges? If it is the later I see not the reason to not make it official. I see the need for less houserules, but in fact this is a unwritten houserule:

provisions and ammunition needs are ignored if not important for the story.

And yes, I think this is very much in spirit with the 4e mindset.
 

KarinsDad

Adventurer
But is it no actual rules problem or is the problem widely ignored with the informal backing of the judges? If it is the later I see not the reason to not make it official. I see the need for less houserules, but in fact this is a unwritten houserule:

provisions and ammunition needs are ignored if not important for the story.

And yes, I think this is very much in spirit with the 4e mindset.

I don't understand why this is important to you.

Players need to keep track of their resources here on LEB.

Period.

It doesn't matter which resource we are talking about. A daily power. The number of healing surges used. The number of arrows used. Gold used, etc. And this is a player responsibility, not a DM or judge responsibility.

And, very few DMs or judges have enough time or inclination to make sure that the players are being honest. No house rule will make a player honest either.

If a player doesn't want to keep track of his arrows and finds it too much bookkeeping, then he can acquire the quiver. That's not to say that we should lower the price of the quiver though. The cost of the quiver should not be based on the number of arrows that a PC would use during the lifetime of the PC (like some people posted in that thread).

I personally think that the cost and level of the quiver is just about correct due to WHEN in the lifetime of a PC that it should be acquired (i.e. basically going into Paragon level) as per this post that I wrote:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/5543739-post31.html


For that matter, I don't think that all magic thrown weapons should return automatically either (a side issue in that thread). It changes the game from 'plausible fantasy' to MMO fantasy.

A much better rule (IMO) for magic thrown weapons is that they return a number of times per encounter based on their enhancement bonus.

+2 magic thrown weapon = returns to throwers hand twice per encounter.

This concept that "it's not fun" if a player throws a magic weapon and he then doesn't have it for next round is extremely silly IMO.
 

renau1g

First Post
I think the archer rangers and other heavy range users should just buy a boatload at level 4 and just roll with that, TBH.

KD is right and players should track these as they should also track the 2gp (or whatever pittance it is) to catch a sky coach, or that gold piece they give to the beggar for information, etc, etc. They aren't and the judges haven't been combing the adventure threads to add up the numbers of ammunition used.

re: plausible fantasy, weapons return, etc. Wulfgar's hammer returns every time he throws it in the Drizzt novels. I don't see the big problem with it.

Personally, if we were to houserule anything, it would be that magical ranged weapons bestow a property onto nonmagical/nonalchemal/basic ammo to return to the quiver once fired (like the magic thrown weapons).
 

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