D&D 5E PHB Spell lists

[Tony Vargas]

That being established, can someone tell me what is the advantage of having spells listed ONLY alphabetically?

You can find a given spell if you remember only it's name, or, if, say, the monster or NPC stat block you're looking at only mentions the name.

That's about it, really. Quickly look up one spell. Having a good index of spells'd also work for that purpose.
(But, y'know, good index, yeah, right.)

Why aren't they first organized by levels (starting with Cantrips) and THEN in alphabetical order? It's such a pain having to go from the class spell list, then flip through a ton of spells you might never get to use (looking' at you 9th level spells) and then finding the Spell isn't to your liking and having to start all over again.

For that matter, spells organized by class, then level, then alphabetically, worked pretty nicely back in 1e. You could browse through the spells your cleric or druid could cast - or your MU or Illusionist might learn - and get an idea of what you could do, at a given level. It just felt much more natural than looking at the spell list, and then looking up each spell, while trying to ignore all the cool spells of other levels & classes that happened to start with the same letter. ;(

And speaking of the class spell list, it really would have been way easier if Rituals had been indicated in said list. And that each spell utilized the same system as the Xanathar Spell cards where each spell has a little logo that tells you on which class spell list it is. That would make picking new spells or preparing a new load out at the start of the day way easier.

Rituals, and concentration, sure. Those'd be nice to know at a glance, since they can make a big difference to the learn or prep decision.

Or maybe I'm just crazy and everybody loves the long alphabetical list?

Oh, you play D&D, you're probably at least a bit crazy.

 

[Shiroiken]

So, in 5e a spell has an innate level that is always the same. No matter at what level YOU can cast it, Goodberry is always a 1st Level Spell

IIRC, a spell is always the level of the spell slot you use to cast it, but there are several spells that grant no benefit for using a higher level slot. This really only matters for Dispel Magic and Counterspell AFAIK though.

(by the way, it's dumb to have two different concept in a game that are named the same thing but that's for another day).

They were going to change this in 1E, but the terms had become so ingrained during OD&D that they were kept, creating a never ending cycle of "we can't change it because everyone knows it, but new players get confused."

That being established, can someone tell me what is the advantage of having spells listed ONLY alphabetically?

Why aren't they first organized by levels (starting with Cantrips) and THEN in alphabetical order? It's such a pain having to go from the class spell list, then flip through a ton of spells you might never get to use (looking' at you 9th level spells) and then finding the Spell isn't to your liking and having to start all over again.

For players, other orders might be more useful, but for DMs alphabetical is necessary (unless they indexed every spell by name) since several monsters cast spells without using slots.

And speaking of the class spell list, it really would have been way easier if Rituals had been indicated in said list. And that each spell utilized the same system as the Xanathar Spell cards where each spell has a little logo that tells you on which class spell list it is. That would make picking new spells or preparing a new load out at the start of the day way easier.

I believe they've acdmitted that failure, but reprints are somewhat expensive. I know they released PDFs listing and marking Rituals.

 

[FrogReaver]

It seems to me that if spells weren't alphabetical and instead you needed to know the level that a player or inexperienced DM might find it very difficult to find a spell in the heat of the moment. The solely alphabetical list is better for newer players/newer DM's to looks something up quicker in actual play IMO.

My personal beef with spell lists is that I wish the spell itself told the classes that innately got access to the spell. That would have been very helpful IMO.

 

[ccs]

So, in 5e a spell has an innate level that is always the same. No matter at what level YOU can cast it, Goodberry is always a 1st Level Spell (by the way, it's dumb to have two different concept in a game that are named the same thing but that's for another day).

Look at it this way: by being able to figure it out you prove that you're that teeny bit smarter than others.

Besides, average 10 year olds have been figuring it out since the Basic sets of the late 70s/early 80s. So it can't be that hard to grasp.

And sometimes the same word really IS the best term for multiple things.
So you get Class Levels, Spell Levels, Dungeon Levels....

And speaking of the class spell list, it really would have been way easier if Rituals had been indicated in said list. And that each spell utilized the same system as the Xanathar Spell cards where each spell has a little logo that tells you on which class spell list it is. That would make picking new spells or preparing a new load out at the start of the day way easier.

You want to know a cheap fix to this problem?
A pen.

You take said pen & put a dot next to each Ritual spell on the lists. 5 minutes later you never have this problem again.

 

[Azzy]

So, in 5e a spell has an innate level that is always the same. No matter at what level YOU can cast it, Goodberry is always a 1st Level Spell (by the way, it's dumb to have two different concept in a game that are named the same thing but that's for another day).

Perrsonally, I find it easier and faster to look up a spell during game time with the spell list being alphabetical than with spells segregated by level (has flashbacks to earlier editions). It may be more of a slog for character creation and leveling, but I prefer the tradeoff for in-game reference especially given that there generally aren't time restraints when creating or leveling a character as opposed to looking up spells during a game.

 

[Azzy]

I like Donjon's Sheet personally as I DM or play a caster.

There is also this resource from WotC which has the normal spell lists, but then also has them sorted by School then level, and then also just Alpha order by level: WotC Spell Lists. It is, unfortunately, PHB only, no SCAG or XGE.

Back in 2014 I also put this excel sheet together with slicers and such. 5E - Spell List for Easy reference

I have an updated version, but this is already available on the forum and I'll have to wait till I get home to find the updated version

I've uploaded my list here.

 

[R_J_K75]

...I prefer the tradeoff for in-game reference especially given that there generally aren't time restraints when creating or leveling a character as opposed to looking up spells during a game.

Funny I just realized that in the 2 years I've been running my current "5E" campaign I used entangle twice. Both were in pre-planned encounters and I can't for the life of me figure out why I didnt include the spell description in my notes so I just winged it. I was close but Im sure that both times I used it there were slightly different effects. I just compared the 2E, 3E and 5E versions and its strange some of the things that changed about the spell from editions. Unless its absolutely crucial I rarely look things up during a game.

 

[robus]

You would think that for something that is SO INTEGRAL to the game they would have put in a little more effort into it...

Feels like they just wanted it to look like the 3rd edition spell list or something.

It does seem like it’s just following convention. Definitely laid out to suit existing players switching to 5e, not newbies to the game. I thought my brain would melt the first time I tried to roll a character using the PHB!

 

[robus]

You take said pen & put a dot next to each Ritual spell on the lists. 5 minutes later you never have this problem again.

Or WotC could have realized that during development and put the dot in for us (but that is a good idea)

 

[DND_Reborn]

I dunno - not really an advantage, but I'm sure page count has something to do with it. Or as an added incentive to buy D&D Beyond.

I've been using this resource to see a sortable, filterable list of spells - and to print custom spell lists/books for PCs and NPCs:

www.dnd-spells.com

I second the source-- our table uses it all the time. I actually downloaded it so I have the spells on my laptop, but I can't create the pdfs (which is fine really).

As far as the PHB spells, the best ideas have already been said:

1. Designate Ritual and Concentration spells with *, #, (r), (c), etc., take your pick.
2. Under each spell description, list the classes that normally have access to that spell.
3. With each spell in the list, provide the page number it is on as well, so you can go directly to the page without having to skim through the book to find it.

Those three things would have GREATLY made the spell lists and descriptions better IMO.

While I vastly prefer the 1E method (you quickly learned which level spells where which, or I did at least), it also had it's pitfalls. It was really annoying to look up a spell as a Cleric, and it told me to look it up under the Magic-User listing... In the end, you are trading one issue for another.