D&D (2024) Multiclassing: Slots and Prepared Spells

[MerricB]

I mean, I mentioned an epic boon in 2014 that exists?

It isn't in 2024, and we know there are conversion issues.

However, in the interests of creating a ruling:

Full text of Boon of High Magic:
"You gain one 9th-level spell slot, provided that you already have one."
(Note that a player can't choose this - it can only be given by a DM, per the 2014 rules).

Note also the spell slot isn't associated with a class. And because your class doesn't have a 9th level slot, it can't benefit from this feat.

As such, I'd say it's added to the spell slots you'd get from the multiclassing table, and so doesn't change the spells you can prepare due to a class.

Cheers!

 

[DrJawaPhD]

My question is, can I prepare any 3rd level spells, or only up to 2nd level spells with each class, and upcasting 1st or 2nd level spells into the third level slot?

There have been so many replies already so maybe this is clear already, but just in case there's still any confusion my recommendation is go whip up a quick dummy character on DnD Beyond and check it out. Understanding the actual calculations is so much more difficult than just letting the computer tell you the answer

If I did this correctly, your proposed 9th level Arcane Tricker / 3rd level Illusionist would get:

As Rogue:
2 cantrips known
6 spells prepared between levels 1-2

As Wizard:
3 cantrips known
6 spells prepared between levels 1-2
2 Illusion spells prepared between levels 1-2

For spell slots you get:
4x Level 1 slots
3x Level 2 slots
3x Level 3 slots (only usable for upcasting)

 

[NotAYakk]

It isn't in 2024, and we know there are conversion issues.

However, in the interests of creating a ruling:

Full text of Boon of High Magic:
"You gain one 9th-level spell slot, provided that you already have one."
(Note that a player can't choose this - it can only be given by a DM, per the 2014 rules).

Note also the spell slot isn't associated with a class. And because your class doesn't have a 9th level slot, it can't benefit from this feat.

As such, I'd say it's added to the spell slots you'd get from the multiclassing table, and so doesn't change the spells you can prepare due to a class.

Cheers!

Wait, what? The wizard rules don't say "a spell slot associated with the wizard class", nor does Boon of High Magic say "this is a slot not associated with any class", nor does it mention multiclassing.

This concept of "associated with a class" seems to have been invented without being in the text?

It is a 9th level spell slot. You may have gained it as a wizard class feature (the feat). If your intelligence boost ASI isn't a wizard class feature, are you unable to use it to increase your prepared spells as a wizard? If you where a single-classed wizard your intelligence would have been lower...

DnD Beyond

DnD Beyond is some programmers interpretation of the rules, not the rules. You can use DnD Beyond's interpretation if you like, but prescribing it on others seems a bit harsh.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Yes. However, the rule for the single-classed Wizard is, "The chosen spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots." That's the limit that class gives on what spells you can prepare. So what spell slots do you have?

Are you seeing the issue I am having now?

It seems quite straightforward to me.

What slots do you have access to as a Wizard of level N? By nature, floor((N+1)/2). Since you determine what spells you choose based on your single-class Wizard level of N, you cannot choose to learn spells due to having incidentally gained extra slots from some other source.

Allow me to point out the critical problem with doing this any other way: What happens if you're a 17th-19th level Cleric, and then take a single dip in Wizard?

By your reckoning--where you can choose slots of any level that your Cleric class gave you access to--this would mean that a Cleric 19/Wizard 1 could learn a 9th level Wizard spell immediately upon having started learning Wizardry. Does that make sense? Is that a reasonable thing for someone to be able to do? It seems pretty grossly exploitative and problematic.

The much more reasonable method, and more importantly consistent across all types of classes, is that "the chosen spells" you reference must be learned as if you were a single-class Wizard of your Wizard level. Meaning it doesn't matter whether that Wizard level was your very first character level or your very last. You're a Cleric 19/Wizard 1, and you can choose only those spells a 1st-level Wizard would be able to choose, regardless of when you take that Wizard level.

 

[billd91]

Wait, what? The wizard rules don't say "a spell slot associated with the wizard class", nor does Boon of High Magic say "this is a slot not associated with any class", nor does it mention multiclassing.

This concept of "associated with a class" seems to have been invented without being in the text?

It is a 9th level spell slot. You may have gained it as a wizard class feature (the feat). If your intelligence boost ASI isn't a wizard class feature, are you unable to use it to increase your prepared spells as a wizard? If you where a single-classed wizard your intelligence would have been lower...

I think you're missing some major points here.

1) That epic boon is in 2014, not 2024, and can only be awarded by the DM, so any argument about how it would work with 2024 multiclassing rules or taken as a high level benefit (19th level) is hypothetical at best.

2) You can't gain a 9th level spell slot from that boon unless you already have one. That's right from the 2014 rulebooks. If you were a multi class character, you could achieve it with 17 combined caster levels - say a 15th level cleric/2nd level wizard. Of course, then you wouldn't have qualified for the epic boon you get as a 2024 19th level character in a particular class. So you'd have to have gotten it some other way - such as DM fiat - in which case, talk it over with your DM.
But suppose somehow you had it as a Cleric15/Wizard2 - congratulations, you have TWO 9th level spell slots instead of one. But the prep rules still say you use the tables as a 15th level cleric and as a 2nd level wizard for what you are allowed to prep. So you have two 9th level slots YOU CAN'T PREP FOR. You'd sure be able to cast some sweetly upcast spells, tho'.

 

[Mistwell]

It seems quite straightforward to me.

What slots do you have access to as a Wizard of level N?

It doesn't say that, however.

By nature, floor((N+1)/2). Since you determine what spells you choose based on your single-class Wizard level of N, you cannot choose to learn spells due to having incidentally gained extra slots from some other source.

Allow me to point out the critical problem with doing this any other way: What happens if you're a 17th-19th level Cleric, and then take a single dip in Wizard?

Well, you have the issue of obtaining 9th level spells in your spellbook. But yes, what does happen? It's a fair question. I know how I'd run it in my game (you can't) but I am not so positive the rules were written that way.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

It doesn't say that, however.

You can only do spell-things as if you were a single-class character. The spell slots you have access to are considered separately. I don't see why this is such a confusing thing.

Well, you have the issue of obtaining 9th level spells in your spellbook. But yes, what does happen? It's a fair question. I know how I'd run it in my game (you can't) but I am not so positive the rules were written that way.

I am quite certain that is what the rules are aiming at. Unless you can point to something explicitly saying otherwise, why kick up a fuss about a possible implication of an intentional intersecting of two separate sections that don't relate to each other?

This is what 5.5e says about multiclass spellcasting characters (after the table, obviously):

Spells Prepared. You determine what spells you can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a level 4 Ranger / level 3 Sorcerer, for example, you can prepare five level 1 Ranger spells, and you can prepare six Sorcerer spells of level 1 or 2 (as well as four Sorcerer cantrips).​

Each spell you prepare is associated with one of your classes, and you use the spellcasting ability of that class when you cast the spell.​

Cantrips. If a cantrip of yours increases in power at higher levels, the increase is based on your total character level, not your level in a particular class, unless the spell says otherwise.​

Spell Slots. You determine your available spell slots by adding together the following:​

• All your levels in the Bard, Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, and Wizard classes
• Half your levels (round up) in the Paladin and Ranger classes
• One third of your Fighter or Rogue levels (round down) if you have the Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster subclass.

Then look up this total level in the Level column of the Multiclass Spellcaster table. You use the slots for that level to cast spells of an appropriate level from any class whose Spellcasting feature you have.​

​

This table might give you spell slots of a higher level than the spells you prepare. You can use those slots but only to cast your lower-level spells. If a lower-level spell that you cast, like burning hands, has an enhanced effect when cast at a higher level, you can use the enhanced effect as normal.​

​

At no point does the word "choose" appear. Hence, you must be referring to a specific class's Spellcasting section for your use of the word "choose"; in this case, Wizard. But the rules are very clear about what to do with that: "Whenever you gain a Wizard level after 1, add two Wizard spells of your choice to your spellbook. Each of these spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots, as shown in the Wizard Features table. The spells are the culmination of arcane research you do regularly."

Per the rules stated above, the only thing that makes any sense is that you choose those spells as if you were a single-classed Wizard. It even explicitly says that you base your choice on what the Wizard class table says, NOT anything about any multiclass table.

 

[Mistwell]

You can only do spell-things as if you were a single-class character. The spell slots you have access to are considered separately. I don't see why this is such a confusing thing.

It doesn't say either. It says you prepare spells as a single-class character, but calculate spell slots as a multiclass character, creating the conflict. You're just repeating the conflict. We all understand it says you prepare spells as single-class character, right?

 

[Mistwell]

You don't prepare for slots.

The 2024 text says "You determine what spells you can prepare for each class individually, as if you were a single-classed member of that class. If you are a level 4 Ranger / level 3 Sorcerer, for example, you can prepare five level 1 Ranger spells, and you can prepare six Sorcerer spells of level 1 or 2 (as well as four Sorcerer cantrips)."

The key text is "as if you were a single-classed member of that class". Left out the explicit text saying "of the level you have achieved in that class", but it is picked up with the example, and reinforced again in the Spell Slots section.

Unfortunately the example they used gives that answer regardless of this particular question because it's drawing from two different spell sources and doesn't avail itself of a mechanic where you can actually gain spell choices which are above your caster level (only Wizard can do this). A single-classed wizard can prepare spells up to the level of spell slots they have, and can access spells of a higher level than they normally could.

So, if you are a Rogue/Arcane Trickster 9, you prepare spells as if that were ALL you were. Then you repeat the process as a Wizard 3. Now you have a list of prepared spells, each with its own spellcasting stat (if they are different).

That's saying you track spell SLOTS separately, in addition to tracking spell PREPARATIONS, which the rules never specify. Spell slots appear to be dictated by multiclassing rules.

 

[mellored]

It doesn't say either. It says you prepare spells as a single-class character, but calculate spell slots as a multiclass character, creating the conflict. You're just repeating the conflict. We all understand it says you prepare spells as single-class character, right?

Correct. As a level 3 wizard would.
And a level 3 wizard only has level 2 slots, and thus can only prepare level 2 spells.

Multiclass rules don't say anything about casting rituals from your book however.
Or replacing spells you already had prepared.

But I'm sure the intention is to limit wizards the same as every other class.