Is this the correct way that dragons "Alternate form"

[Melatuis]

SILVER DRAGON, GREAT WYRM, ADVANCED, PALADIN 20 CR 46
Always lawful good Colossal Dragon (Air)
Init +4; Senses blindsense 60 ft., darkvison 120 ft., low-vision (4xdistance), 2xday light vision, scent; Listen +55, Spot +55
Languages Celestial, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan
Aura Frightful Presence (360 ft. radius, Will DC 43)
Aura of CourageP allies within 10 feet gain a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AC 41(-8 size, +39 natural), touch 2, flatfooted 41
hp 10701324 (42d12+420, +20d10+200 HD); DR 20/magic+3
Fort +57, Ref +43, Will +51
Defensive Abilities
Immune sleep and paralysis effects, acid, cold, fearP effects, and all diseasesP
SR 32
Vulnerability fire
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spd 40 ft., fly 200 ft. (Clumsy)
Base Atk +62; Grp +94
Melee bite +70 (4d8+16) and
2-claws +69 (4d6+8) and
2-wings +68 (2d8+8) and
Tail Snap +69 (4d6+24)
or crush: all large or smaller creatures within a 30x20 ft. area (4d8+24 plus pinned, Ref DC 41 for half damage and not pinned)
or tail sweep: all medium or smaller creatures, within 180 degrees, 40 ft. radius (2d8+24, Ref DC 41 for half damage)
Smite Evil 7/day ooooo+oo: one attack, additional +12 to hit and +20 to damage vs evil creatures.
Space 30 ft.; Reach 20 ft. (30 ft. with bite)
Special Attacks Breath Weapon (70 ft. Cone of cold, 24d8 hps damage, Ref DC 43 for half damage,
or 70 ft. Cone of paralyzing gas, Fort DC 43 or be paralyzed for 1d6+12 rounds)
Spell Like Abilities (CL 19)
Cloud walking(always in effect, can be repress)
at will - Detect evilP(Quickened)
3/day - Alternate form, Fog cloud, Control winds
2/day - feather fall
1/day - Control weather, Reverse gravity; Lay on HandsP: Cure up to 240 hps per day
5/week - Remove Disease
Spells Prepared(CL19, DC 22 plus Spell Level, SR=1d20+23)
9th - oooo+o - Hold Monster (mass), Time Stop
8th - oooooo+oo - Cure Critical Wounds (mass), Mind Blank, Sunburst
7th - oooooo+oo - Delayed Blast Fireball, Holy Word, Prismatic Spray,
6th - oooooo+oo - Chain Lighting, Heal, Heroes’ Feast
5th - oooooo+oo - Flame Strike, Feeblemind, True Seeing, Wall of Force
4th - oooooo+ooo - Confusion, Fire Sheild, Freedom of Movement, Stoneskin
3rd - oooooo+ooo - Fire Ball, Lighting Bolt, Prayer, Protection from Energy
2nd - oooooo+ooo - Acid Arrow, Blur, Glitterdust, Resist Energy, See Invisibility
1st - oooooo+ooo - Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Mount, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shield
0 - oooooo - Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Open/Close, Prestidigitation, Read Magic
Paladin Spells Prepared(CL10)
4th - Break Enchantment, Death Ward (x2), Neutralize Poison, Restoration
3rd - Discern Lies, Heal Mount, Magic Weapon (Greater), Prayer (x2)
2nd - Bull Strength, Delay Poison, Resist Energy (x3), Zone of Truth
1st - Bless, Detect Poison, Magic Weapon, Protection from Chaos/Evil (x3)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abilities Str 43, Dex 10, Con 30, Int 30, Wis 31, Cha 34
Skills Appraise +13, Bluff +23, Climb* +25, Concentration +74, Diplomacy +36, Disguise +28, Escape Artist* +37, Gather Information +15, Handle Animal +31, Heal +33, Intimidate +14 (additional +4/-4 very size category larger/smaller than target), Jump* +26, Knowledge (arcana) +47, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +26, Knowledge (geography) +27, Knowledge (history) +25, Knowledge (local) +26, Knowledge (nature) +28, Knowledge (nobility/royalty) +43, Knowledge (religion) +51, Knowledge (Arch/Eng) +29, Listen +55, Ride +23, Search +36, Sense Motive +36, Spellcraft +43, Spot +55, Survival (aboveground) +37, Survival (underground) +35, Swim* +38, Tumble* +2, Use Magic Device +48, Use Magic Device (scrolls) +50, Use Rope +15, Use Rope (binding) +17
Feats Ability Focus (breath weapon), AlertnessP9, Extra SmitingP18, Heighten Spell, Hover, Improved Init., Improved Spell Penetration, Improved Toughness, Lighting Reflexes, Mounted CombatP3, Multiattack, Range Smite EvilP15, Rideby AttackP6, Silent spell, Skill Focus (concentration), Smite CarrierP12, Spell Penetration, Still spell, Weapon Focus (claws, tail snap), Weapon Focus (melee weapon)P1, Wingover





Human form not usable or change stats in red. Is this correct?
[Human Form] Silver Dragon, Great Wyrm, Advanced, Paladin 20 CR 46
Always lawful good [Medium] Colossal Dragon (Air)
Init +4; Senses blindsense 60 ft., darkvison 120 ft., low-vision (4xdistance), 2xday light vision, scent; Listen +55, Spot +55
Aura Frightful Presence (360 ft. radius, Will DC 43)
Aura of Courage allies within 10 feet gain a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AC 41(-8 size, +39 natural), touch 2, flatfooted 41
AC 14 (+4 mage armor), touch 10, flatfooted 14; Blur 20% miss chance
hp 10701324 (42d12+420, +20d10+200 HD); DR 20/magic+3 10/+5 stone skin 150 pts
Fort +57+49, Ref +43, Will +51
Defensive Abilities
Immune sleep and paralysis effects, acid, cold, fearP effects, and all diseasesP
SR 32
Vulnerability fire
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Spd 40 ft., fly 200 ft. (Clumsy) [30 ft.]
Base Atk +62; Grp +94[+64]
Melee bite +70 (4d8+16) and
2-claws +69 (4d6+8) and
2-wings +68 (2d8+8) and
Tail Snap +69 (4d6+24)
or crush: all large or smaller creatures within a 30x20 ft. area (4d8+24 plus pinned, Ref DC 41 for half damage and not pinned)
or tail sweep: all medium or smaller creatures, within 180 degrees, 40 ft. radius (2d8+24, Ref DC 41 for half damage)
+3 morning star +68/+63/+58/+53 (1d8+5 B/P)
Smite Evil 7/dayP ooooo+oo: additional +12 to hit and +20 to damage vs evil creatures.
Ranged +3 mighty (Str 18) composite longbow +65/+60/+55/+50 (1d8+7 110’ P 19-20)
Range Smite Evil (uses a daily Smite Evil): additional +12 to hit and +20 to damage vs evil creatures.
Space [5 ft.] 30 ft.; Reach [5 ft.] 20 ft. (30 ft. with bite)
Special Attacks Breath Weapon (70 ft. Cone of cold, 24d8 hps damage, Ref DC 43 for half damage,
or 70 ft. Cone of paralyzing gas, Fort DC 43 or be paralyzed for 1d6+12 rounds)
Spell Like Abilities (CL 19)
Always in effect - Cloud walking(can be repress)
[/COLOR]at will - Detect evilP(Quickened)
3/day - Alternate form, Fog cloud, Control winds
2/day -feather fall
1/day - Control weather, Reverse gravity; Lay on HandsP: Cure up to 240 hps per day
5/week - Remove DiseaseP
Spells Prepared(CL19, DC 22 plus Spell Level, Overcome SR=1d20+23)
9th - oooo+o - Hold Monster (mass), Time Stop
8th - oooooo+oo - Cure Critical Wounds (mass), Mind Blank, Sunburst
7th - oooooo+oo - Delayed Blast Fireball, Holy Word, Prismatic Spray,
6th - oooooo+oo - Chain Lighting, Heal, Heroes’ Feast
5th - oooooo+oo - Flame Strike, Feeblemind, True Seeing, Wall of Force
4th - oooooo+ooo - Confusion, Fire Shield, Freedom of Movement, Stoneskin
3rd - oooooo+ooo - Fire Ball, Lighting Bolt, Prayer, Protection from Energy
2nd - oooooo+ooo - Acid Arrow, Blur, Glitterdust, Resist Energy, See Invisibility
1st - oooooo+ooo - Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Mount, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shield
0 - oooooo - Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Open/Close, Prestidigitation, Read Magic
Paladin Spells Prepared(CL10)
4th - Break Enchantment, Death Ward (x2), Neutralize Poison, Restoration
3rd - Discern Lies, Heal Mount, Magic Weapon (Greater), Prayer (x2)
2nd - Bull Strength, Delay Poison, Resist Energy (x3), Zone of Truth
1st - Bless, Detect Poison, Magic Weapon, Protection from Chaos/Evil (x3)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Abilities Str 43[15], Dex 10, Con 30[14], Int 30, Wis 31, Cha 34
Skills Appraise +13, Bluff +23, Climb* +25[+17], Concentration +74[+66], Diplomacy +36, Disguise +28, Escape Artist* +37, Gather Information +15, Handle Animal +31, Heal +33, Intimidate +14 (additional +4/-4 very size category larger/smaller than target), Jump* +26[+2], Knowledge (arcana) +47, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +26, Knowledge (geography) +27, Knowledge (history) +25, Knowledge (local) +26, Knowledge (nature) +28, Knowledge (nobility/royalty) +43, Knowledge (religion) +51, Knowledge (Arch/Eng) +29, Listen +55, Ride +23, Search +36, Sense Motive +36, Spellcraft +43, Spot +55, Survival (aboveground) +37, Survival (underground) +35, Swim* +38[+24], Tumble* +2, Use Magic Device +48, Use Magic Device (scrolls) +50, Use Rope +15, Use Rope (binding) +17
Feats Ability Focus (breath weapon), AlertnessP9, Extra SmitingP18, Heighten Spell, Hover, Improved Init., Improved Spell Penetration, Improved Toughness, Lighting Reflexes, Mounted CombatP3, Multiattack, Range Smite EvilP15, Rideby AttackP6, Silent spell, Skill Focus (concentration), Smite CarrierP12, Spell Penetration, Still spell, Weapon Focus (claws, tail snap), Weapon Focus (melee weapon)P1, Wingover

 

[Cleon]

Well let's see. The most pertinent bit of the Alternate Form special ability is that the dragon retains its extraordinary, spell-like and supernatural abilities except for breath weapons and gaze attacks.

Human form remove or change stats in red. Is this correct?
[Human Form] Silver Dragon, Great Wyrm, Advanced, Paladin 20 CR 46
Always lawful good [Medium] Colossal Dragon (Air)
Init +4;

The above is correct.

Senses blindsense 60 ft., darkvison 120 ft., low-vision (4xdistance), 2xday light vision, scent; Listen +55, Spot +55
Aura Frightful Presence (360 ft. radius, Will DC 43)

The dragon doesn't lose any of the above stuff in red.

AC 14 (+4 mage armor), touch 10, flatfooted 14; Blur 20% miss chance hp 10701324 (42d12+420, +20d10+200 HD); DR 20/magic+3 10/+5 stone skin 150 pts
Fort +57+49, Ref +43, Will +51
Defensive Abilities
Immune sleep and paralysis effects, acid, cold, fearP effects, and all diseasesP
SR 32
Vulnerability fire

The dragon's hit points and Fort save will change according to the lower Con of its new form, but it keeps its DR, SR and immunities.

There is no such thing as "DR /+3" or "DR/+5" in the 3.5 edition rules, it should be DR 20/magic and 10/adamantine.

Spd 40 ft., fly 200 ft. (Clumsy) [30 ft.]
Base Atk +62; Grp +94[+64]
Melee bite +70 (4d8+16) and
2-claws +69 (4d6+8) and
2-wings +68 (2d8+8) and
Tail Snap +69 (4d6+24)
or crush: all large or smaller creatures within a 30x20 ft. area (4d8+24 plus pinned, Ref DC 41 for half damage and not pinned)
or tail sweep: all medium or smaller creatures, within 180 degrees, 40 ft. radius (2d8+24, Ref DC 41 for half damage)
+3 morning star +68/+63/+58/+53 (1d8+5 B/P)
Smite Evil 7/dayP ooooo+oo: additional +12 to hit and +20 to damage vs evil creatures.
Ranged +3 mighty (Str 18) composite longbow +65/+60/+55/+50 (1d8+7 110’ P 19-20)
Range Smite Evil (uses a daily Smite Evil): additional +12 to hit and +20 to damage vs evil creatures.
Space [5 ft.] 30 ft.; Reach [5 ft.] 20 ft. (30 ft. with bite)
Special Attacks Breath Weapon (70 ft. Cone of cold, 24d8 hps damage, Ref DC 43 for half damage,
or 70 ft. Cone of paralyzing gas, Fort DC 43 or be paralyzed for 1d6+12 rounds)

The dragon loses all the above bits in red.

The Strength bonus used in its Melee attacks and BAB/Grapple appears to be wrong. It ought to have Str 11 like an ordinary human according to the Alternate Form RAW (see abilities below).

Spell Like Abilities (CL 19)
Always in effect - Cloud walking(can be repress)
at will - Detect evilP(Quickened)
3/day - Alternate form, Fog cloud, Control winds
2/day - feather fall
1/day - Control weather, Reverse gravity; Lay on HandsP: Cure up to 240 hps per day

Alternate form doesn't cause the loss of SLAs, so the dragon keeps all the above bits in red.

5/week - Remove DiseaseP
Spells Prepared(CL19, DC 22 plus Spell Level, Overcome SR=1d20+23)
9th - oooo+o - Hold Monster (mass), Time Stop
8th - oooooo+oo - Cure Critical Wounds (mass), Mind Blank, Sunburst
7th - oooooo+oo - Delayed Blast Fireball, Holy Word, Prismatic Spray,
6th - oooooo+oo - Chain Lighting, Heal, Heroes’ Feast
5th - oooooo+oo - Flame Strike, Feeblemind, True Seeing, Wall of Force
4th - oooooo+ooo - Confusion, Fire Shield, Freedom of Movement, Stoneskin
3rd - oooooo+ooo - Fire Ball, Lighting Bolt, Prayer, Protection from Energy
2nd - oooooo+ooo - Acid Arrow, Blur, Glitterdust, Resist Energy, See Invisibility
1st - oooooo+ooo - Mage Armor, Magic Missile, Mount, Ray of Enfeeblement, Shield
0 - oooooo - Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Detect Poison, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Open/Close, Prestidigitation, Read Magic
Paladin Spells Prepared(CL10)
4th - Break Enchantment, Death Ward (x2), Neutralize Poison, Restoration
3rd - Discern Lies, Heal Mount, Magic Weapon (Greater), Prayer (x2)
2nd - Bull Strength, Delay Poison, Resist Energy (x3), Zone of Truth
1st - Bless, Detect Poison, Magic Weapon, Protection from Chaos/Evil (x3)

The above looks correct.

Abilities Str 43[15], Dex 10, Con 30[14], Int 30, Wis 31, Cha 34

A strict reading of the rules says the dragon uses human racial ability bonuses on its physical stats instead of dragon ones, so it'll have a base of Str 11 and Con 10.

Personally I never liked that rule.

It should get 5 points of stat increases from its 20 levels of paladin though. Did you add those in?

Skills Appraise +13, Bluff +23, Climb* +25[+17], Concentration +74[+66], Diplomacy +36, Disguise +28, Escape Artist* +37, Gather Information +15, Handle Animal +31, Heal +33, Intimidate +14 (additional +4/-4 very size category larger/smaller than target), Jump* +26[+2], Knowledge (arcana) +47, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +26, Knowledge (geography) +27, Knowledge (history) +25, Knowledge (local) +26, Knowledge (nature) +28, Knowledge (nobility/royalty) +43, Knowledge (religion) +51, Knowledge (Arch/Eng) +29, Listen +55, Ride +23, Search +36, Sense Motive +36, Spellcraft +43, Spot +55, Survival (aboveground) +37, Survival (underground) +35, Swim* +38[+24], Tumble* +2, Use Magic Device +48, Use Magic Device (scrolls) +50, Use Rope +15, Use Rope (binding) +17
Feats Ability Focus (breath weapon), AlertnessP9, Extra SmitingP18, Heighten Spell, Hover, Improved Init., Improved Spell Penetration, Improved Toughness, Lighting Reflexes, Mounted CombatP3, Multiattack, Range Smite EvilP15, Rideby AttackP6, Silent spell, Skill Focus (concentration), Smite CarrierP12, Spell Penetration, Still spell, Weapon Focus (claws, tail snap), Weapon Focus (melee weapon)P1, Wingover

The physical abilities used in the Red Skills appear to be wrong.

Also, the dragon doesn't lose its Red feats, it just can't use them when in human form.

 

[freyar]

A strict reading of the rules says the dragon uses human racial ability bonuses on its physical stats instead of dragon ones, so it'll have a base of Str 11 and Con 10.

Personally I never liked that rule.

It should get 5 points of stat increases from its 20 levels of paladin though. Did you add those in?

Also, I didn't check if this dragon uses the standard array or not. If not, it presumably uses whatever array it had before adding the human racial bonus.

 

[Melatuis]

Thank you for your input. This what I was looking for.

 

[Melatuis]

Thanks again. I have change what red means. I will change the stats later. I put all the ability advancement for class levels into Cha.

 

[Cleon]

Also, I didn't check if this dragon uses the standard array or not. If not, it presumably uses whatever array it had before adding the human racial bonus.

Hmm, well creatures with levels in an adventuring character class (like Paladin) usually use the Elite Array, but this fellow's abilities seems to pretty close to the standard Great Wyrm Silver Dragon (Str 43, Dex 10, Con 31, Int 30, Wis 31, Cha 30).

It appears to have a Con 1 point higher than standard (31 vs 30) and a Cha 4 points higher (34 vs 30) for some reason.

 

[Cleon]

Thanks again. I have change what red means. I will change the stats later. I put all the ability advancement for class levels into Cha.

Oh, that explains in. Although shouldn't it have Charisma 35 from adding 5 points to the base of 30?

It'd be better off adding 4 points to Charisma and the spare point to one of its odd stats (Str 43, Con 31, Wis 31), thus giving it an extra point of stat bonus.

 

[Wolf72]

I totally forgot where I read it (online, DragonLance, some other dragon book ... draconomicon?)

but there was a feat (or you could create one) where a shapechanged dragon was able to retain some of it's physical stats ... at least enough to be a humanoid with better physical stats.

 

[Cleon]

I totally forgot where I read it (online, DragonLance, some other dragon book ... draconomicon?)

but there was a feat (or you could create one) where a shapechanged dragon was able to retain some of it's physical stats ... at least enough to be a humanoid with better physical stats.

I suspect you're thinking of Alternate Form Synergy.

That's a homebrew feat, however, not one from an official publication.

 

[Wolf72]

well, Cleon ... I've searched my books and come up with two possibilities that I was reading. An extra alternate form feat (in a DragonLance book) which is pretty ho-hum ... unless you've want your chromatic dragon to assume a humanoid form. There was also a Draconic polymorph spell that gave the user a +8 str and +2 con for polymorphed physical stats (that was in the Draconomicon).

the on-line source I found was thread from 2002 ... started by ME! I read over it and then looked at the thread originator was like "hey ... HEY, that's me!" Old age is awesome, it's like discovering something new that's really old everyday ... (only 41, but I'm sure my 5 year old adds like 250 or something to that.)

Wolf

ps: old ENworld thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?29109-Dragons-and-Polymorph-BADD

pps: If I were a dragon I'd seriously consider polymorphing into an ogre or ogre-magi